2008-12-12T00:46:42 *** skmurphy has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T00:46:56 * skmurphy waves at anyone who is awake at this hour 2008-12-12T01:16:12 heya :) 2008-12-12T01:39:45 'lo 2008-12-12T01:39:53 * jeff ponders a report 2008-12-12T01:40:17 bah. not going to worry about it tonight. :) 2008-12-12T01:49:34 *** Mark__T has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T01:51:31 *** dbs has quit IRC 2008-12-12T01:52:04 *** dbs has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T02:43:13 *** Mark__T has left #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T02:45:57 *** Mark__T has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T03:17:40 * dbs waves at skmurphy 2008-12-12T03:35:48 * robbat2|na bangs his head against the desk for the stupidity of the various Z39.50 sources not indexing the field he wants 2008-12-12T03:36:38 robbat2|na: you sound kind of new to the library world; most of us already have deep deep dents in our foreheads from that 2008-12-12T03:37:06 on the plus side, I've memorized large swaths of Bib-1 and z39.50 now 2008-12-12T03:37:25 I'm sorry for your brain's loss 2008-12-12T03:40:02 I haven't found a single z39.50 source that has MARC 024/#1/$a (UPC) indexed, regardless of the z39.50 query I assemble 2008-12-12T03:40:17 it's like they only went and tied Bib-1 @attr 1=1007 into MARC 001 instead :-( 2008-12-12T03:41:44 that sounds sadly very likely 2008-12-12T03:42:11 the databases DO have the items I want to scan 2008-12-12T03:43:09 just that I scan the UPC barcode (non-Bookland EAN ISBN), and i need to find some other mapping to the right data to look it up from z39.50 still then 2008-12-12T03:59:19 robbat2|na: for CDs, I would be tempted to download the LoC MARC records and index them yourself 2008-12-12T03:59:38 for DVDs, I'm not sure of a good source of MARC records 2008-12-12T04:00:14 OCLC does contain the data i'm after. i'm busy trying to see how UPC lookups elsewhere have advanced 2008-12-12T04:02:22 ok, so i've got two services now that will do UPC -> Company / Title lookups, not perfect data, but probably enough to do a second pass against a z39.50 source (where I can compare the UPC afterwards) 2008-12-12T04:03:53 cool - good hunting, robbat2|na, I'm going to try to get back to sleep 2008-12-12T04:04:39 *** dbs has quit IRC 2008-12-12T04:23:32 @later tell dbs about UPC source http://www.upcdatabase.com/downloads/ 2008-12-12T04:23:32 robbat2|na: The operation succeeded. 2008-12-12T04:51:40 also for tommorow, could somebody with OCLC access try these two queries z39.50 queries? "@attr 1=1007 024543051008" "@attr 1=1007 50500515" 2008-12-12T04:56:12 it should point to OCoLC/50500515 in both cases, which is "Rocky Horror Picture Show", re-released in 2002 as a special edition 2008-12-12T04:56:41 sn:024543051008 should also work according the OCLC web docs 2008-12-12T07:41:02 *** kgs has quit IRC 2008-12-12T08:07:14 *** kgs has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T08:08:02 *** kbeswick_ has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T08:19:18 *** kgs has quit IRC 2008-12-12T08:29:29 *** kgs has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T08:41:27 *** wlayton has joined #OpenILS-Evergreen 2008-12-12T08:52:31 *** Mark__T has quit IRC 2008-12-12T09:04:05 *** eby has joined #OpenILS-Evergreen 2008-12-12T09:46:18 *** dbs has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T10:15:31 *** maples has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T10:20:02 dbs: Good morning. I am wondering in you have a link to documentation for basic 'getting started' administration such as naming branches, and deleting the example ones. Also for user maintenance and workstation registration. 2008-12-12T10:20:45 maples: you may want to look at http://open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=community_tutorials 2008-12-12T10:21:13 also http://open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-user:evergreen_end-user_documentation 2008-12-12T10:21:54 Thanks. I have been going through the end user docs... I will take a look at the other you sent. 2008-12-12T10:22:33 yeah, the docs from Sitka, Indiana, etc are from real live production libraries 2008-12-12T10:35:53 *** sarabee has quit IRC 2008-12-12T10:44:11 *** miker_ has quit IRC 2008-12-12T10:46:25 * kgs observes this would make a good webinar 2008-12-12T10:47:56 * dbs is thinking of putting a "welcome to the OPAC" webinar together to avoid having to give it ad nauseum at training sessions 2008-12-12T10:48:07 webinar / wink-style screencast 2008-12-12T10:49:14 *** brendan_g has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T10:49:24 dbs: This seems to be great documentation, but all for 'end user' nothing for initial configuration. 2008-12-12T10:50:24 *** miker_ has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T10:50:24 *** sarabee has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T10:50:27 sorry, the workstation registration thing tweaked my mind 2008-12-12T10:51:20 sarabee: so, lemme call on your expertise in an incredibly off-topic fashion: is a dual-stroller of any value to a set of kids with an age difference of A and Z? 2008-12-12T10:51:34 I'm thinking no, the older kid should be walking damnit, but maybe I'm stupid 2008-12-12T10:53:02 I actually registered a test box to one of the example branches that I want to delete. Now I am not sure if it matters, but should I make sure to keep the workstation registration as clean as possible? 2008-12-12T11:03:26 dbs: S just ran out to pick up A, but IME, no. A wants to walk on her own ... she hasn't been in a stroller but, I think, about twice since Z came along 2008-12-12T11:03:45 I was going to try to make that more cryptic, but then I couldn't 2008-12-12T11:03:55 miker_: thanks, but there's no way L will accept an answer from you 2008-12-12T11:04:06 she'll accuse us of being in league 2008-12-12T11:04:08 dbs: understood :) 2008-12-12T11:06:47 *** brendan_g has quit IRC 2008-12-12T11:20:53 robbat2|na: people over in #code4lib want to know if you started building a set of UPC-to-LCCN/OCLC mappings that would be shareable etc 2008-12-12T11:21:42 specifically me 2008-12-12T11:29:56 dbs: do you know of any inital config docs? 2008-12-12T11:31:07 maples: sorry, I'm an install specialist 2008-12-12T11:31:14 sorry 2008-12-12T11:31:29 know a good contact? 2008-12-12T11:35:12 the best people would either be on this channel, or on open-ils-general mailing list - people who are live with evergreen today 2008-12-12T11:56:42 dbs: we've never bought one, i never saw a reason to. :) 2008-12-12T12:40:20 sarabee: thanks! 2008-12-12T12:40:25 * dbs heads off to work 2008-12-12T12:40:52 *** dbs has quit IRC 2008-12-12T13:02:00 I had a dream that I woke up in the middle of the night, discovered a terrible bug and reported it in this channel 2008-12-12T13:02:08 Luckily, the scrollback indicates that it was /all a dream/ 2008-12-12T13:20:39 phasefx: thanks again to the archive links on roaming, finally sent out a reply 2008-12-12T13:22:08 *** dbs has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T13:28:54 *** jeffdavis has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T13:36:53 kgs: i presume it is a known that the normal list archives stopped in october 2008-12-12T13:37:25 eby... urk 2008-12-12T13:37:27 i vaguely remember mentioning it before but i also did for openlibrary 2008-12-12T13:37:33 that would be "no" 2008-12-12T13:37:34 so can't remember 2008-12-12T13:37:41 mailmark is still working though 2008-12-12T13:37:43 it's been mentioned a few times in here, i think. 2008-12-12T13:37:46 but we found the commit is working 2008-12-12T13:37:59 s/is/is not 2008-12-12T13:38:09 s/commit/commit archive 2008-12-12T13:38:21 jeff, sorry, I am not always eyeballs on this channel 2008-12-12T13:38:43 thank you for bringing this up today though-- I will see what's up 2008-12-12T13:40:51 * kgs ponders... "time for a change?" 2008-12-12T13:42:16 took me a bit to notice 2008-12-12T13:42:23 was trying to tell if my post went through 2008-12-12T13:42:31 and then was wait a sec... 2008-12-12T13:43:16 i might be confusing instances of archive problems, but i think dmcmorris was looking into it with gpls 2008-12-12T13:43:39 you could probably ask him faster than i can find time to find it in logs. 2008-12-12T13:44:18 october 22 2008-12-12T13:44:30 jeff could be 2008-12-12T13:44:41 he's out today, but I'll confab Monday. 2008-12-12T13:45:58 kgs: is there a list feature yet. where people can create public and private lists to share 2008-12-12T13:46:15 cool. was just responding to eby's query , wasn't trying to imply that it was a long-standing annoyance. :) 2008-12-12T13:46:34 eby: book bags. 2008-12-12T13:46:48 jeff I was wondering if that's what eby meant :) 2008-12-12T13:47:07 ah that's right 2008-12-12T13:47:11 thank goodness for Markmail, eh? Jeff have you tried that archive for your query? not that we shouldn't restore the other 2008-12-12T13:47:36 eby: you mean bookbags? you can keep them to yourself (requires auth, just for you and staff with the VIEW_BOOK_BAGS perm (or similar)) or "publish" them and hand the URL to others 2008-12-12T13:47:40 bookbags are very flexible.. they have permanent urls as well as atom feeds 2008-12-12T13:48:05 they are also buckets, I found... I could export them with vandelay 2008-12-12T13:49:03 yeah i need to look into the data model more 2008-12-12T13:49:10 i've been trying to use buckets and shelving locations to replace what used to be done with special patron accounts in our previous ILS... running into challenges, trying to brainstorm some changes that would let us mesh eg + workflows here 2008-12-12T13:49:19 we'll prob be implementing them with machine tags in our current setup 2008-12-12T13:49:26 phasefx has commented that bookbags can be tinkered with in interesting ways 2008-12-12T13:49:31 i think what phasefx mentioned the other night about transparencies would help lots 2008-12-12T13:50:00 the only transparencies I know are those square plastic films for old overhead projectors... :) 2008-12-12T13:50:09 * jeff grins 2008-12-12T13:50:54 we'll be indexing the public lists along with the normal tags and displaying them prob in the catalog similar to tags if they are public 2008-12-12T13:51:11 when you say machine tags...? 2008-12-12T13:51:36 namespaced tags 2008-12-12T13:52:01 you can see some in use on flickr for geolocation etc 2008-12-12T13:52:03 from whence these tags -- what source(s)? 2008-12-12T13:52:07 ah hah 2008-12-12T13:52:19 like lat:xxxxxx 2008-12-12T13:52:44 you can also do things like isbn:xxxxx 2008-12-12T13:52:53 and then get all the photos related to that 2008-12-12T13:53:16 i think udell or someone did some to get cover images, author photos, etc 2008-12-12T13:53:48 hah... I'm only laughing cuz I clicked "generate stats" on the EG flickr page and they're displaying the old "under construction" graphic 2008-12-12T13:54:32 I have seen some on flickr for that 2008-12-12T13:54:43 http://clagnut.com/blog/1907/ 2008-12-12T13:54:56 bookbags/buckets/etc are implementations of the underlying Evergreen container concept. tags, friends, friend groups, friend permissions (deligations) and other fun stuff will also be built using containers 2008-12-12T13:55:47 eby intereesting post 2008-12-12T13:56:40 namespaces++ 2008-12-12T13:59:12 (as an aside, I just tracked down a discussion from 12/10 about getting our archives into gmane so they aren't in one archival basket) 2008-12-12T14:01:18 http://georgialibraries.markmail.org/search/?q=gmane 2008-12-12T14:01:32 has anyone done work on overlaying cover art from a local collection? i really want to supplement some of our cover images for some of our odder items, like realia. 2008-12-12T14:01:37 puppets, cake pans... 2008-12-12T14:02:20 jeff: do you have some sort of service that will serve the images, or just a pile of images? 2008-12-12T14:02:52 if the former, we'd want to allow a fallback "standard" added content service 2008-12-12T14:03:37 the latter, probably could be done as a 404 handler 2008-12-12T14:03:49 but development in either case 2008-12-12T14:04:18 miker_: i'd be interested in hacking on it in a way that would benefit ourselves and others, so a service wouldn't be out of the question. 2008-12-12T14:04:50 dbs, eby: i've got no objections to running such a project, beyond that I need it for my own cataloging first, and it's bound by my great lack of time 2008-12-12T14:04:56 if nothing's been done before, i'd just start digging into that chunk of the code 2008-12-12T14:05:53 jeff: stacked added content services would be very cool 2008-12-12T14:07:46 jeff: in what way 2008-12-12T14:08:13 kgs: it's that dbs guy again 2008-12-12T14:08:46 eby: right now the MIEG opac pulls cover images from syndetics. i'd like to also pull from a local source of images of puppets, cake pans, toys, etc. things that syndetics will never have, that it would be Really Neat to have images of in the OPAC 2008-12-12T14:08:49 we're doing a caching service most likely that will check netflix, openlibrary, amazon, syndetics, etc and find a source. We may then supplement it with our own images for items that are specific or we get promotional rights to 2008-12-12T14:09:14 jeff: hell, that would be useful for academics, too, pulling thumbnails from items in institutional repositories that have also been imported into the catalog 2008-12-12T14:09:31 eby: hardest part would probably be determining what identifier to use. i know nothing of how evergreen currently does it. 2008-12-12T14:10:09 it just uses isbn ... that's the only thing the commercial products use (that they've told us about) 2008-12-12T14:10:17 jeff: we'll probably associate the images with the bib but have to decide on that level which to use 2008-12-12T14:10:25 for netflix it might be title or upc 2008-12-12T14:10:42 i have to see if the google data contains the magazine covers yet or not 2008-12-12T14:11:12 *** skmurphy has quit IRC 2008-12-12T14:11:22 but it's use of isbn is tied to the OPAC code, not the added content code 2008-12-12T14:11:45 syndetics-- 2008-12-12T14:11:46 so, failing isbn it could pass a different identifier 2008-12-12T14:12:19 robbat2|na: I don't think anyone was asking you to run a whole project; but if there's some code you used to do the usb -> lccn/oclcnum dance that you could throw a reasonable license on and dump somewhere, it could help others do the same thing 2008-12-12T14:12:27 the opac says "gimme stuff for this key" ... it uses isbn for "key", so it could fall back to anything 2008-12-12T14:12:48 miker_: would it be easy to stack the different lookups? at what level is failure determined when trying to pull cover art? i see it all passes through the opac host, so... i'm guessing something in there could detect lack of response on isbn (or lack of isbn) and fall back to TCN or something 2008-12-12T14:12:54 hey dbs 2008-12-12T14:13:06 dbs, ah, like that, probably 2008-12-12T14:13:31 jeff: see OpenILS::WWW::AddedContent (and friends) 2008-12-12T14:13:43 miker_: thanks! 2008-12-12T14:16:17 i'm guessing we would have it pull from a local store if we moved over 2008-12-12T14:17:09 eby: just in the sanse that your patron browsers would never query syndetics (or similar) directlrydirectly? 2008-12-12T14:17:17 lag-- 2008-12-12T14:17:51 yeah we would cache things locally 2008-12-12T14:18:11 from multiple sources to try to get better coverage 2008-12-12T14:18:16 without the issues we currently have 2008-12-12T14:18:43 since syndetics answer to slow service is to randomly serve broken images 2008-12-12T14:20:04 yeah, EG caches 2008-12-12T14:20:59 do you currently check for the 1x1 2008-12-12T14:22:14 I'm not rightly sure 2008-12-12T14:34:10 - 2008-12-12T14:38:27 i see broken images in our opac often. 2008-12-12T14:38:34 no time to look into why yet. 2008-12-12T14:42:07 that's syndetics 2008-12-12T14:42:09 most likely 2008-12-12T14:42:37 they used to just slow down our opac horribly but they replaced it by serving broken images if their response seems to be taking too long 2008-12-12T14:42:53 which seems to be more and more 2008-12-12T14:43:25 but apparently if they don't have an image for a isbn they return a 1x1 image instead 2008-12-12T14:43:29 eby: the EG code has a fail/retry mechanism. after X timeouts, it only serves from cache for Y minutes 2008-12-12T14:43:38 then tries the server again 2008-12-12T14:44:09 eby: we actually implemented a heuristic detection mechanism to stop going for added content under certain conditions ... long delays and 404s ... if you get more than X in Y seconds, stop. try again in Z minutes 2008-12-12T14:44:13 heh 2008-12-12T14:44:21 * miker_ is too slow 2008-12-12T14:44:24 yeah their delays aren't long now 2008-12-12T14:44:48 just broken 2008-12-12T14:44:52 from what we've seen 2008-12-12T14:45:04 i'm not sure if they still do 404s 2008-12-12T14:45:48 i think sopac's caching script has to check each response to see if it is larger than 1x1 to know if syndetics has the image or not 2008-12-12T14:46:07 yeah, may have to start checking for 1x1 images ... ImageMagic here we come ;) 2008-12-12T14:46:24 slows down the processing quite a bit 2008-12-12T14:46:27 yeah 2008-12-12T14:46:44 which is one of the reasons we're looking at a batch job on the back end to check various services 2008-12-12T14:47:07 and unfortunately, they're contracts generally say stuff like "you can't cache this for more than 24h" 2008-12-12T14:48:44 yeah and they apparently have nothing about providing a quality service 2008-12-12T14:49:21 but since i'm not making a distributable product i'll prob presume they should be happy that we still pay them 2008-12-12T14:49:34 haha 2008-12-12T14:56:20 paying_people_so_we_can_fix_their_shortcomings+- 2008-12-12T14:58:54 hrm... i wonder if the 1x1 is all the same file on disk. depending on how they serve it, it might have the same etag, or the same inode... 2008-12-12T14:59:05 of course, that assumes they're using apache 2008-12-12T14:59:57 md5sum or last modified time of the 1x1... might be faster than parsing the image data... 2008-12-12T15:00:13 parse once to get the hash, then match on hash... hrm. 2008-12-12T15:00:18 * jeff rambles 2008-12-12T15:01:41 prob a few potentials 2008-12-12T15:02:32 it is one thing that i don't have to care about right now. therfore... 2008-12-12T15:02:35 <-- not caring! 2008-12-12T15:02:57 we'll soon be caring though i have plenty of other issues 2008-12-12T15:02:58 * jeff finds another staff client quirk that might be something he can patch 2008-12-12T15:03:57 getting the architecture down 2008-12-12T15:10:48 *** gmcharlt has quit IRC 2008-12-12T15:11:02 *** gmcharlt has joined #OpenILS-Evergreen 2008-12-12T15:14:32 *** skmurphy has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T15:39:34 miker_: feel like another round of "sizing hardware dartboard-style"? 2008-12-12T15:49:14 Running the staff client on trunk, I'm trying to bill a patron for "Grocery" charge and getting two pop-up error windows that say "TypeError: offlineStrings has no properties" 2008-12-12T15:49:34 admittedly, my trunk build is a few days stale...but has anyone seen this before? 2008-12-12T15:57:38 dbs pasted "Grandiose hardware plans for miker_'s amusement - seem reasonable?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72059 2008-12-12T15:57:54 wlayton: yep 2008-12-12T15:58:59 new network code from last week moved some strings into offlineStrings that is now ironically copied to remote server; if the client can't find the referenced string in the offline.properties file, it will complain 2008-12-12T15:59:33 And if it can't find the offline.properties file at all, then you'll get that error 2008-12-12T16:02:08 dbs: Will this problem be fixed when I do a 'svn update', or do I need to do something else? 2008-12-12T16:02:09 *** skmurphy has quit IRC 2008-12-12T16:02:53 theoretically it will be fixed when you svn up and install again, but I've been wrong plenty of times before 2008-12-12T16:05:58 dbs: thanks 2008-12-12T16:35:31 *** EGUEST128 has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T16:37:02 *** EGUEST128 has quit IRC 2008-12-12T16:37:03 *** mib_10v9qf has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T16:40:03 hello all plz somebody knows how's the copyright issue to use book jackets images in a library website? 2008-12-12T16:44:29 mib_10v9qf: it depends on your source, and none of us are lawyers 2008-12-12T16:49:58 *** wlayton has quit IRC 2008-12-12T17:00:46 it would be nice if phone notification on holds was a true/false and then an optional override with this number. or maybe a "use daytime, use evening, use custom" 2008-12-12T17:01:05 causes problems when patron phone number is changed. all their existing holds still have the old number. 2008-12-12T17:06:29 *** miles1 has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T17:11:50 @later tell wlayton crap, I see that offlineStrings problem now too. gah. dbs-- 2008-12-12T17:11:50 dbs: The operation succeeded. 2008-12-12T17:13:37 looks like I need to load offlineStrings in more online places. crap crap crap. 2008-12-12T17:15:40 *** dbs has quit IRC 2008-12-12T17:19:26 *** miles1 has left #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T18:16:27 *** jeffdavi1 has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T18:29:29 *** jeffdavis has quit IRC 2008-12-12T18:36:48 *** jeffdavi1 has quit IRC 2008-12-12T19:59:56 @later tell dbs: that's a not-unreasonable config. I'll make some notes if you like 2008-12-12T19:59:56 miker_: The operation succeeded. 2008-12-12T20:09:25 miker_: Are you there? Please check email... 2008-12-12T20:10:00 The email (to sboyette and miker_) outlines the bad news.... 2008-12-12T20:14:59 agJohn: looking 2008-12-12T20:15:51 Yup. OK. Just BTW, there's apparently 14750 of these messy entries (and no, the text values are not unique). 2008-12-12T20:16:28 is it common for Z39.50 servers to not support @and in queries? 2008-12-12T20:18:43 miker_: Might be possible to lay in the right values if I load data on source and just put the next value in the slot. I can test that out if it's awkward to regen any other way--in fact, I'll do that while I wait to hear from you. 2008-12-12T20:19:38 * miker_ points over there 2008-12-12T20:20:14 agJohn: just realized I wasn't in the Double Secret Probation channel 2008-12-12T20:20:19 but I am now 2008-12-12T20:41:46 *** kgs has quit IRC 2008-12-12T21:07:23 *** wlayton has joined #OpenILS-Evergreen 2008-12-12T21:09:37 *** skmurphy has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T23:06:06 *** rebling-slc has joined #openils-evergreen 2008-12-12T23:21:43 *** rebling-slc has quit IRC 2008-12-12T23:46:38 *** wlayton has quit IRC