15:00:36 <jventuro> #startmeeting 2012-11-26 Evergreen Reports Interest Group
15:00:37 <pinesol_green> Meeting started Mon Nov 26 15:00:36 2012 US/Eastern.  The chair is jventuro. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:37 <pinesol_green> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:08 <jventuro> Hi all!  Can we start with introductions?
15:01:21 * jventuro is Jessica Venturo - Bibliomation
15:01:21 * afterl is Amy Terlaga, Bibliomation
15:01:35 * csharp is Chris Sharp, GPLS/PINES
15:01:40 <afterl> Sorry, jventuro, didn't mean to beat you to the punch.
15:01:51 * jventuro waves at chtrotter
15:01:56 * jeff is Jeff Godin, Traverse Area District Library (TADL)
15:02:02 <jventuro> No worries, afterl
15:02:24 * chtrotter is Cristina Trotter, Oconee Regional Library System (PINES)
15:02:54 * bshum is Ben Shum, Bibliomation
15:02:55 * paxed is Pasi Kallinen, Regional Library of Joensuu
15:03:13 <eeevil> x
15:03:45 <jventuro> Welcome, everybody!
15:04:00 <jventuro> Nice to see a big group this time :)
15:04:48 <jventuro> #topic Review and approval of minutes from last meeting: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2012/evergreen.2012-09-28-14.31.html
15:05:21 <jventuro> Any additions, subtractions, comments, or questions?
15:06:10 <afterl> None here.
15:06:11 <csharp> s'all good
15:06:17 <chtrotter> Looks good to me. I took care of my action item earlier today. Please review the development page here: http://www.open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-reports:taskforce_reports-related_development_projects
15:06:43 <jventuro> Looks great!
15:06:53 <jventuro> chtrotter++
15:07:03 <jventuro> Thanks for doing that.
15:07:15 <chtrotter> Please feel free to edit as appropriate.
15:07:38 <zpinhead> some folks have told me that "evergreen is not for research libraries"  I really don't know what that means --
15:07:46 <zpinhead> a) any idea what that might mean?
15:07:53 <zpinhead> b) is it true?
15:08:17 <csharp> zpinhead: we're having a meeting right now - could you please hold your question until later? (maybe after 4:00 p.m. EST)
15:09:18 <csharp> regarding the question of whether the reports development would include a new method of *building* reports - not really
15:09:44 <csharp> it's intended to be a way to customize the view of commonly-needed reports
15:10:13 <csharp> it would not replace the current interface, but would alleviate the need for it for most reports users
15:10:31 <csharp> (that's the goal anyway, as far as I understand it)
15:10:48 <jventuro> Thanks for following up on that, csharp.
15:11:22 <jventuro> That brings us to our next topic...
15:11:27 <jventuro> #topic Development
15:11:43 <jventuro> Any other updates from the PINES project?
15:12:13 <chtrotter> I have been participating in the working group for PINES, and I am really excited about the development. My understanding of the project is the same as csharp's.
15:12:16 <csharp> Emerald Data Networks is currently gathering commonly-used reports from PINES libraries
15:12:57 <csharp> with those, they will begin building the framework for the new interface based on the wireframes previously referenced
15:13:16 <csharp> http://www.open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-reports:reports_wireframes
15:13:47 <jventuro> Will you PINES be taking any suggestions from other Evergreen libraries?
15:13:58 <jeff> Will the quick reporting interface shown in the wireframes be used to execute actual Evergreen reports? I'm asking because of how you stated that the developer is gathering commonly-used reports...
15:14:23 <jeff> Or is the plan to reproduce common reports in the interface under development?
15:15:05 <csharp> jventuro: please send on suggestions and we'll factor them in if we can
15:15:37 <csharp> jeff: it will be used to execute actual evergreen reports - current plan is to leverage the existing backend
15:15:52 <jeff> csharp: thanks.
15:16:03 <jventuro> Fabulous!  Thank you.
15:16:12 <chtrotter> This should provide an easy way for library staff and directors to get core reports without having to run to their "report's person" or worry about extensive training on the reports module.
15:16:19 <csharp> jventuro: either chtrotter or I can pass those on
15:16:33 <ethomsen> Looks great!
15:16:48 <paxed> i agree, it does look great. and simple enough for non-techies.
15:17:42 <jventuro> Will there be any way to customize the reports that are available to run?
15:18:27 <csharp> I'm not sure how easy or difficult that will be, but as far as I understand it, yes ;-)
15:18:58 <jventuro> Awesome.
15:19:18 <csharp> I think the expectation is that people who need to do a lot of customization will continue using the existing UI
15:20:02 <jventuro> That's true.  But it would be nice to have a simpler delivery system for the end user.
15:20:34 <jventuro> I find that if people don't use the interface a lot, they forget what to do when they want to run a report.
15:20:45 <afterl> csharp:  what's the timeframe on this?  Do you know yet?
15:21:03 <csharp> afterl: I'm afraid I don't know right now
15:21:24 <csharp> I'll let Emerald know when the next reports meeting is in case they want to have someone attend
15:21:39 <afterl> csharp:  that would be great!
15:21:49 <jventuro> ^^
15:21:56 * csharp doesn't want to give the impression that he has all the answers on this ;-)
15:22:47 <chtrotter> But he does have a few more answers than me. :)
15:23:13 <jventuro> We won't hold you to it, csharp :)
15:23:18 <csharp> :-D
15:24:31 <chtrotter> So i have a question about the page I put up about the development projects..
15:24:49 <jventuro> Go ahead, chtrotter
15:25:25 <chtrotter> I created a section called "Development Under Consideration," and I was just wondering if there might be better wording.
15:26:13 <jventuro> Hmm.
15:26:58 <jventuro> I can't think of anything better off the top of my head.  I'll think about it.
15:27:12 <jventuro> Anybody else have any ideas?
15:28:31 <chtrotter> If not, that's cool. Just wanted to double check.
15:28:35 <csharp> what makes it "under consideration"?  awaiting funding partners? requirements gathering?
15:28:35 <jeff> it is a wiki page, which can be easily updated. i wouldn't spend too much time fretting about it.
15:28:46 <csharp> and +1 to jeff
15:30:00 <jventuro> Well, the one that's listed there did not have a developer as of the last meeting.
15:31:26 <csharp> ah - okay
15:31:50 * chtrotter relaxes and stops fretting.
15:32:17 <jventuro> OK, so for the notes...
15:33:03 <jventuro> #info The PINES reports development project is currently underway: http://www.open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-reports:reports_wireframes
15:33:33 <jventuro> Should anything be added to that?
15:33:59 <paxed> is that planned for 2.4, or some yet-to-be-decided future version?
15:35:19 <csharp> jventuro: that's probably good
15:35:29 <csharp> paxed: timeline would need to be confirmed
15:35:29 <afterl> Should we try to have csharp have someone from Emerald at our next meeting?  Is that something we should pursue?
15:35:59 <csharp> let me ask, but please don't put it in the minutes - I don't want to put them on the hook
15:36:12 <afterl> okay, fair enough
15:36:23 * csharp is happy to be on the hook himself, however
15:38:07 <jventuro> We won't put you on the hook just yet :)
15:39:11 <jventuro> I can provide an update on the Bibliomation developments.
15:40:10 <jventuro> And I'd like to publicly thank tsbere for working on them
15:40:28 <jventuro> I would throw him a parade if I could :)
15:41:04 <csharp> @praise tsbere
15:41:04 * pinesol_green tsbere is the very model of a modern major hacker
15:42:57 <jventuro> #info Bibliomation developmets: report parameters (like shelving location) will be alphabetized (https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1065655) and report templates will be alphabetized.
15:42:59 <pinesol_green> Launchpad bug 1065655 in Evergreen "Reports - alphabetize parameters" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Wishlist,Confirmed]
15:44:39 <bshum> also notes http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=296b76a937a52093db298bf86f8125ed41d9db4b which sorts reports/templates by name
15:44:40 <pinesol_green> [evergreen|Thomas Berezansky] Sort Templates/Reports/Output - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=296b76a>
15:45:06 <jventuro> It's a beautiful thing
15:46:12 <jventuro> Any other development projects related to reports going on out there?
15:47:25 <jventuro> Anything else from past meetings that should be discussed?
15:47:30 <jeff> I'm not sure how well it fits the container of "development projects", but TADL continues to use SQL reports run via JasperReports Server for our reporting needs.
15:48:03 <jventuro> Great.  How is that going?
15:48:13 <csharp> jeff: that might be a good fit for things not covered by the Emerald development's scope
15:48:41 <jeff> I expect we'll have some more of our reports posted in a public repo shortly, and would be interested to hear from others who are taking that same approach, either based on our demos or the talk at the 2012 conference.
15:49:05 <csharp> jeff: I wasn't able to attend - are the materials online anywhere?
15:49:36 * csharp has been interested in that approach, and has downloaded the jasperreports code before, but didn't get very far
15:49:42 <jeff> I'm trying to think with an eye toward redistribution and future-proofing, either by making use of reporting views or by explicitly stating assumptions that any SQL reports may currently make, should those underlying assumptions change.
15:50:02 <jeff> csharp: i'll see if the slides are up anywhere, and pass on a link or get them up.
15:50:09 <csharp> jeff: thanks!
15:50:50 <jventuro> jeff: Could you send them to me and I'll make sure the link goes out with the notes?
15:51:07 <jeff> csharp: http://orchid.dev.tadl.org:8080/jasperserver egdemo/open-ils for some basic samples from way back, if you hadn't already seen.
15:51:11 <jeff> jventuro: willdo.
15:51:22 <csharp> jeff: great - thanks
15:51:23 <jventuro> thanks
15:52:20 <jventuro> #info TADL continues to use SQL reports run via JasperReports Server for their reporting needs.
15:53:37 <chtrotter> Should this be something added to development project page? I just created this page, it would be easy enough to take out the word "development" and just have it be reports-related projects.
15:53:58 <jventuro> Seeing as we're running out of time, we'll move on to new business.
15:54:14 <jventuro> Oh, good point chtrotter
15:54:16 <jeff> chtrotter: i had planned to add links to something related to jasper, as well as a link to bugs in launchpad tagged reports of severity wishlist.
15:54:42 <afterl> Wondering if it's time to try to revive the SQL wiki - I have no clear idea as to how many EG sites are using SQL, though
15:54:45 <jventuro> jeff++
15:55:44 <jventuro> #topic SQL Wiki
15:56:17 <jventuro> afterl: When was the last time it was updated?
15:56:22 <afterl> So Biblio had contributed a number of SQL queries to the wiki awhile back
15:56:31 <afterl> Oh, it's been a long while.
15:56:55 <afterl> First the earth cooled, then the dinosaurs came.
15:57:12 <jventuro> :)
15:57:26 <jventuro> Maybe folks need a reminder that it's there?
15:57:42 <afterl> I'm wondering if we'd need to start from scratch
15:57:53 <afterl> Those queries probably don't work anymore.
15:58:32 <afterl> Maybe wait until the reports interest group meeting at the EG conference....?
15:58:49 <afterl> Poll libraries then?
15:59:22 <jventuro> Sounds good to me.
15:59:51 <jventuro> Any other feedback on this?
16:00:50 <jventuro> #info Tabled until the reports meeting at the Evergreen Conference
16:01:40 <jventuro> Before we adjourn, I'd like to get some feedback on the next meeting date.
16:01:53 <jventuro> Mondays seem to be a good day, yes?
16:02:21 <chtrotter> Works for me.
16:02:21 <afterl> good for me
16:03:16 <jventuro> I'm proposing January 21st as the next meeting date.  Thoughts?
16:03:44 <chtrotter> Sounds good.
16:04:40 <afterl> good for me
16:04:58 <jventuro> OK.  I'll go with that and see how it goes.
16:05:17 <chtrotter> Before we go, I had one question that we could discuss at the next meeting...unless someone takes care of it before then.  But since we changed the group's name, all sorts of things need to be updated on the wiki. I considered doing it, but I was afraid I would break links and such.
16:05:20 <jventuro> Any other new business?
16:06:07 <jventuro> chtrotter: I started doing that on our wiki pages, but wouldn't mind having help.
16:06:42 <jventuro> My understanding is that the page need to be renamed, and then we can copy and paste the content over.
16:07:06 <jventuro> *pages
16:08:17 <chtrotter> I'll be happy to help with this. I might just need a little bit of a walk-through. I tend to fret. :)
16:08:21 <jeff> i would hope that that wouldn't be necessary. there's probably a better way to rename/move without involving copying and pasting content and losing revisions. probably not something that needs to be sorted out before the meeting is adjourned, though.
16:09:03 * chtrotter supports easier methods!
16:09:43 <jventuro> OK - if anyone knows of an easier way, do let me know!
16:10:15 * denials notes "here be dragons" when it comes to dokuwiki & plug-ins for moving / renaming pages, at least based on experience from a few years back
16:10:52 <jeff> denials: step one: don't find yourself in a situation where you wish to rename/move content in dokuwiki? ;-)
16:12:37 <jventuro> We'll be in touch about it, chtrotter
16:13:20 <jventuro> Any other thoughts?
16:14:11 <jventuro> OK..one last one from me:
16:15:27 <jventuro> #topic Future goals: Think about what you'd like to see the interest group do or discuss.  Bring ideas to the next meeting.
16:15:43 <jventuro> And if nothing else, I'll go ahead and adjourn.
16:16:17 <afterl> bye and thanks for a good meeting.
16:16:17 <chtrotter> Thanks for a great meeting, y'all.
16:16:22 <chtrotter> jventuro++
16:16:31 <jventuro> Yes, thank you all for coming :)
16:17:16 <jventuro> #endmeeting