14:00:53 <yboston> #startmeeting 2013-05-02 - DIG Monthly Meeting Evergreen Documentation Interest Group (DIG) Monthly Meeting. The agenda can be found here http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-docs:dig_meeting_20130502-agenda
14:00:53 <pinesol_green> Meeting started Thu May  2 14:00:53 2013 US/Eastern.  The chair is yboston. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:53 <pinesol_green> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:53 <pinesol_green> The meeting name has been set to '2013_05_02___dig_monthly_meeting_evergreen_documentation_interest_group__dig__monthly_meeting__the_agenda_can_be_found_here_http___evergreen_ils_org_dokuwiki_doku_php_id_evergreen_docs_dig_meeting_20130502_agenda'
14:01:20 <yboston> #topic Introductions
14:01:31 <yboston> Please feel free to start introducing yourselves...
14:01:38 * yboston is Yamil Suarez @ Berklee college of Music
14:01:47 * rsoulliere is Robert Soulliere, Mohawk College
14:02:31 * tspindler is Tim Spindler, C/W MARS
14:02:41 * kmlussier is Kathy Lussier, MassLNC
14:03:37 * hbrennan is <name> <affiliation>
14:03:37 <yboston> we might be a very small group today, so I will move on
14:03:43 <yboston> #topic Updates from Content Coordinators
14:03:46 <hbrennan> woops, sorry first time trying that
14:04:03 <yboston> We will continue having the content corrdinators try out the "#topic" AND "#info" Meetbot commands for their reports
14:04:03 <yboston> So content coordinators, please use "#topic" for the first post/line of your report
14:04:04 <yboston> then use "#info" for every other chat post/line of your report.
14:04:04 <yboston> for example...
14:04:13 <hbrennan> This is Holly Brennan, Homer AK - I'm working the circ desk so I'll be very observant but not a good participant
14:04:22 <yboston> #topic this is a test report first post/line
14:04:23 <yboston> #info this is a test report second post/line
14:04:36 <yboston> who would like to report firsst?
14:04:43 <rsoulliere> I can go first.
14:04:47 <yboston> go ahead
14:04:50 <rsoulliere> #topic Conversion Coordinator Report
14:04:59 <rsoulliere> #info The 2.4 documentation pages have been set up to pull from the 2.4 branch of the repository. 2.4 documentation is available from the main docs page: http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/
14:05:09 <rsoulliere> #info  Direct URL to 2.4 docs: http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/2.4/
14:05:15 <rsoulliere> #info  A few things will be need be updated in the 2.4 branch including changing the new features page reference in root.txt to point to the 2.4 release notes.
14:05:32 <rsoulliere> That is all I had.
14:05:38 <yboston> thanks!
14:05:48 <yboston> rsoulliere++
14:06:31 <yboston> Kathy, do you have anything to mention/report today?
14:06:38 <kmlussier> #topic Release Coordinator Report
14:07:14 <kmlussier> # The 2.4 doc needs page is filling out nicely. We still have some new featuers that need to be documented. http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-docs:2.4_needs
14:07:23 <kmlussier> Bah, forgot the #info
14:07:33 <kmlussier> #info The 2.4 doc needs page is filling out nicely. We still have some new featuers that need to be documented. http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-docs:2.4_needs
14:08:07 <kmlussier> #info I'm thinking of doing a similar exercise from the 2.3 Release Notes since I think there is still some documentation missing from that release.
14:08:39 <kmlussier> #info I also have an action item from the last meeting to do a "how-to" for release notes, but I haven't had a chance to get to that yet. I hope to start work on it in a couple of weeks.
14:08:43 <kmlussier> That's it for me.
14:09:45 <yboston> thanks
14:09:51 <yboston> kmlussier++
14:10:15 <yboston> Tim, did you have anything to mention/report?
14:11:19 <tspindler> not really, I might take a look and update some things on serials
14:11:22 <tspindler> if i have time
14:11:57 <yboston> thanks
14:12:05 <yboston> I will go next
14:12:11 <yboston> (if that is OK)
14:12:14 <tspindler> FYI, lebbeous and dan wells merged a lot of the functionality of alternate and serials control view
14:13:00 <yboston> tspindler: can you explain a little more? not too familiar with serials
14:13:23 <kmlussier> tspindler: dbwells marked Calvin College down for some serials docs for 2.4, so you may want to coordinate with him to make sure you don't work on the same things.
14:13:56 <tspindler> kmlussier: good idea
14:14:43 <tspindler> yboston: serials has had 2 interfaces, alternate serials control view and serials control view, they duplicated a lot of functionality and Dan and Lebbeous got together to start merging the interface so there  is a single interface
14:14:46 <yboston> tspindler: I understand now. I had not worked on any serials stuff so far, but good to know
14:15:27 <hbrennan> I use both views back and forth all day, so this is great news!
14:15:37 <yboston> tspindler: that is what I understood of serials so far, so I am glad I was correct. IS this something projected for EG 2.55 or later?
14:16:00 <tspindler> yboston: this is in 2.4 now,  I was just on sclends test server looking at it
14:16:31 <yboston> tspindler: cool
14:17:09 <yboston> any other questions on Tim's comments?
14:18:21 <yboston> I will give a quick report now
14:18:31 <yboston> #topic update on Berklee's Simmons College intern project
14:18:44 <yboston> #info We have a bunch of updated 2.4 documentation to add, that thankfully Robert already gave it an early look to catch some formatting mistakes.
14:19:10 <yboston> #info the updated docs cover basic OPAC use, holds, my account, etc
14:19:35 <yboston> #info I still need to do some final proofreading before I add it to both master and the 2.4 branch. In a perfect world, the proper approach would have been for me to have pushed my changes to master right before the creation of the 2.4 branch, but I ran out of time.
14:20:06 <yboston> that is all for me
14:20:58 <pinesol_green> [evergreen|Galen Charlton] revisions to installation instructions - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=3018dfb>
14:20:59 <pinesol_green> [evergreen|Galen Charlton] update upgrade instructions for 2.4.0 release - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=0fdd34b>
14:21:00 <pinesol_green> [evergreen|Galen Charlton] adjust release notes references to refer to 2.4.0 - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=9d32147>
14:21:01 <kmlussier> yboston++ Thanks for bringing an intern on to do this work. It's a big boost for the docs.
14:21:10 <hbrennan> Our library just went live with 2.3.4 a month ago, but when we're upgraded I'd love to help
14:21:21 <yboston> I wanted to take a moment to see if hbrennan had any comments or questions
14:21:41 <kmlussier> yboston: Are your OPAC docs all tpac?
14:21:50 <hbrennan> Just the little comment above :) Thanks
14:22:25 <yboston> kmlussier: yes we took stuff from the older docs that talked about JSPAC and updated for TPAC
14:22:40 <yboston> kmlussier: like how to do a search
14:23:40 <yboston> BTW, I wanted to thank Kathy / kmlussier again for asking on the list for someone to host a 2.4 test server
14:23:54 <kmlussier> yboston: ok, I was wondering because of Lindsay's e-mail to the doc list asking about tpac documentation.
14:24:27 <kmlussier> hbrennan++ Whatever help you can give will be much appreciated! If you need any guidance in figuring out what you can help with, just give us a shout out.
14:25:32 <hbrennan> Will do! I'm still trying to catch up from being away at the conference, and of course still figuring out Evergreen since we just migrated...
14:25:54 <hbrennan> But Galen has convinced me I can be useful in helping with documentation until I learn enough to help in other ways
14:26:15 <kmlussier> gmcharlt++ #Keep sending people our way! :)
14:26:27 <hbrennan> I'm the queen of screenshot helpers when I send emails to staff here, so I think I can be useful
14:26:29 <yboston> At this point I would like to see if we want to continue with this adhoc discussion, or should we move on to the single agenda item. I am OK either way
14:26:33 <gmcharlt> and then the steel trap closes ... ;)
14:26:41 <yboston> :)
14:26:50 <hbrennan> Yep, you got me
14:27:50 <yboston> hbrennan: BTW, what is your institution, if I may ask?
14:28:00 <hbrennan> Homer Public Library, Homer Alaska
14:28:20 <hbrennan> I haven't figured out how to authorize my presence here so that my info sticks
14:28:41 <hbrennan> We went live with Evergreen March 28
14:29:03 <yboston> hbrennan: I am still figuring out IRC myself, and congrats on themigration
14:29:22 <hbrennan> Thanks! It's an exciting time
14:29:56 <kmlussier> hbrennan: If you have wiki editing rights, you could add your name to here - http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=community:irc_channel. Or one of us could add it for you.
14:30:05 <kmlussier> yboston: I vote for moving to the one agenda item.
14:30:09 <yboston> OK
14:30:33 <yboston> #topic Brainstorm on ideas from Vancouver conference
14:30:55 <hbrennan> I will do that. Thanks, kmlussier.
14:31:40 <yboston> I had really mixed feelings about how the DIG meeting went down. I did not expect so many visitors, ad was not ready to do a DIG pitch.
14:32:01 <yboston> I thought I had an OK pitch, but I wished I had been prepared to give a pitch
14:32:30 <yboston> I also felt that it was hard to talk regular DIG business without making the newcomers feel excluded
14:32:52 <yboston> next time I will be ready for a small meeting of DIG veterans and a large crowd of visitors
14:32:54 <tspindler> yboston:i think it went well, but we might want to plan two different events for Boston next year
14:33:04 <yboston> tspindler: you read my mind
14:34:13 <kmlussier> yboston, tspindler: What were you thinking? Two different DIG events on the hackfest day?
14:34:49 <yboston> yes, maybe a DIG AsciiDoc training / DIG hackfest; and a DIG meeting
14:35:11 <yboston> that is jusr off the top of my head,
14:35:43 <jeff_> pardon the interjection, but why not one "documentation interest group" meeting that starts with a pitch and open discussion, then closes with the more "regular DIG business" portion -- depending on your pitch, any newly-interested individuals could stick around for their first "DIG meeting"
14:35:50 <kmlussier> yboston: Were you thinking the hackfest would be an all day thing, like the dev hackfest? If so, it would be good to know now so that I could make sure we have the additional space.
14:35:54 <tspindler> kmlussier:i was thinking one more as a true hackfest to hammer out docs and one an intro/promo to recruit more volunteers
14:36:08 <jeff_> and that's perhaps all i have to contribute to this meeting, so i'll let you get back to it. :-)
14:36:21 <yboston> jeff_: thanks for the input
14:38:12 <yboston> jeff_: you describe what we end up doing, though I was improvising. I'll ne mroe ready next time for the meeting
14:38:31 <yboston> one thing I wanted to bring up
14:39:15 <yboston> is that several community members are wanting to help facilitate community members to actualy participate
14:39:23 <yboston> even if it is in small ways
14:39:41 <yboston> but I think we need to offer more slighly formalized training
14:39:52 <yboston> like having basic tutorials
14:40:32 <yboston> like here is an intro to AsciiDoc, and have everyone format a simple doc to practice together
14:40:44 <yboston> then set them loose at a DIG hackfest
14:41:54 <hbrennan> That would make me feel more prepared to help.
14:42:39 <yboston> I can do the teaching, and we would need a 2.4 / 2.5 test server and an updated assignment outline (off the top of my head)
14:43:16 <yboston> and yes kathy as we start to plan the next conference the clock is ticking if we want to schedule any of these ideas
14:44:46 <kmlussier> Sure, but only for ideas that require space. But it sounds like we're talking about a full-day DIG thing that would require its own room.
14:46:05 <yboston> good to know that the space requirements is the key thing to be aware of early on
14:46:47 <yboston> on that topic, we have at time wondered if we did a DIG hackfest in parallel to the DEV hackfest
14:47:05 <dbs> kmlussier: full-day thing like another Doc Sprint? Less talk, more writing?
14:47:11 <yboston> should we be in a single large room, or at least in adjacents rooms in case we want to ask a developer a quick question about their code?
14:47:13 * kmlussier nods
14:48:48 <kmlussier> Hmmmm...So at this year's hackfest, there were groups of tables, and people broke up into groups to focus on things of common interest. Maybe we just need to make sure we have a large enough space, and the doc folks could be one of those groups.
14:50:33 <yboston> absolutely, though it could get loud if I try to teach asciidoc to a small group while the developers are trying to work
14:51:02 <yboston> it might be fine in the end, or I could try giving a 30 minute introduction in a second room then we can return to the main dev room
14:51:27 <bshum> DIG louder than devs?  Hmm
14:51:38 <yboston> Yamil louder than most humans
14:51:53 <bshum> yboston++
14:51:58 <kmlussier> Well, it's something to mull over. I think what I've heard from year to year is that we would all like to spend more time documenting at the conference. Another problem is that, even if DIG had its own room, so many of us are involved in other groups that are meeting and require our presence.
14:52:02 <kmlussier> yboston++
14:52:45 <yboston> working in the same room might be perfectly fine in the end, but I am glad that we are talking about it now
14:53:08 * dbs did try to cross over into the DIG meeting, but was blocked by the absolute crush of people at the DIG meeting :)
14:53:39 <kmlussier> dbs: We'll plan for more space this year. :)
14:54:12 <kmlussier> Or I should say next year. I'm already getting ahead of myself.
14:54:22 <yboston> :)
14:54:25 <kmlussier> I just wanted to bring up something else that was mentioned at the DIG meeting.
14:54:30 <yboston> go ahead
14:55:12 <kmlussier> Several people brought up the desire to have full documentation at release time. I don't think we're at the point, yet, where we can do that, but I'm wondering if there are steps we can take to bring us closer to having full documentation.
14:55:24 <kmlussier> The problem being that we are already playing a lot of catch up.
14:56:44 <yboston> using and intern and or a student work is the only thing that has worked for me so far
14:58:26 <yboston> In theory we could try to do fund raising and find a freelancer that would work on this. Perhaps a retired EG library employee
14:58:45 <kmlussier> Of course, we also have a very small turnout to this meeting after that very large conference meeting, and, without more volunteers or more people getting interns, it's hard to catch up.
15:00:13 <yboston> another approach is to look into creating training docs at the next DIG hackfest (between conferences) to lower the bar for newcomers
15:00:32 <yboston> though, we might want to also spend time at a DIG hackfest doing some of the old conversion work
15:00:57 <kmlussier> I would rather spent the time doing the work. :)
15:00:59 <tspindler> yboston:you not going to finish tha before next year ;)
15:01:47 <yboston> I am planning on getting an intern in the fall and spring, but probably not in the summer. we shall see :)
15:02:10 <kmlussier> I don't know. It's not a problem we're going to solve right now, but I just wanted to raise the issue because some people seemed to feel strongly about it.
15:02:19 <kmlussier> But I have to wander off to make a phone call now.
15:02:29 <yboston> we have hit one hour anyway
15:03:20 <yboston> We can continue on the list and next meeting, any last comments / questions
15:04:39 <hbrennan> Thanks for welcoming me into the meeting today! I'll get my wiki info set up. Please don't hesitate to start bugging me.
15:04:44 <yboston> #idea in the future try to figure out how to have complete documentation ready with each release
15:05:25 <yboston> #idea try to plan additional DIG activities at the next EG conference, like AsciiDoc training and a DIG hackfest
15:06:11 <yboston> anything else?
15:07:22 <tspindler> nothing from me
15:07:34 <yboston> OK, thanks everyone
15:07:52 <yboston> #endmeeting