14:02:08 <yboston> #startmeeting 2013-05-02 - DIG Monthly Meeting Evergreen Documentation Interest Group (DIG) Monthly Meeting. The agenda can be found here http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-docs:dig_meeting_20130606-agenda
14:02:08 <pinesol_green> Meeting started Thu Jun  6 14:02:08 2013 US/Eastern.  The chair is yboston. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:02:08 <pinesol_green> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:02:08 <pinesol_green> The meeting name has been set to '2013_05_02___dig_monthly_meeting_evergreen_documentation_interest_group__dig__monthly_meeting__the_agenda_can_be_found_here_http___evergreen_ils_org_dokuwiki_doku_php_id_evergreen_docs_dig_meeting_20130606_agenda'
14:02:32 <yboston> #topic Introductions
14:02:41 <yboston> Please feel free to start introducing yourselves...
14:02:53 * kmlussier is Kathy Lussier, MassLNC
14:03:08 * yboston is Yamil Suarez @ Berklee college of Music - DIG meetings facilitator
14:03:08 * rfrasur is Ruth Frasur, Evergreen Indiana
14:03:40 * rsoulliere is Robert Soulliere, Mohawk College
14:03:54 <pinesol_green> [evergreen|Dan Scott] Fix Latin-1 encoding that broke doc output - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=96c877e>
14:05:11 <yboston> we might be a small crowd today, but any meeting that Robert and Kathy attends is a success to me
14:05:34 <yboston> #topic Updates from Content Coordinators
14:05:47 <yboston> We will continue having the content corrdinators try out the "#topic" AND "#info" Meetbot commands for their reports
14:05:47 <yboston> So content coordinators, please use "#topic" for the first post/line of your report
14:05:48 <yboston> then use "#info" for every other chat post/line of your report.
14:05:49 <yboston> for example...
14:06:04 <yboston> #topic this is a test report first post/line
14:06:11 <yboston> #topic this is a test report first post/line
14:06:27 <yboston> #topic this is a test report first post/line
14:06:37 <yboston> #info this is a test report second post/line
14:06:47 <yboston> (sorry having pasting issues)
14:06:55 <yboston> who would like to go first..
14:07:20 <kmlussier> #topic DIG Release Coordinator Report
14:07:44 <kmlussier> #info Nothing to report in terms of release coordination.
14:08:19 <kmlussier> #info I did get some udpated 2.4 acq docs done, but have a few more to work on.
14:09:22 <kmlussier> #info I also added some staff client docs for configuring pre-set tabs in the staff client when logging in.
14:09:26 <kmlussier> End of report.
14:10:03 <yboston> btw, I had my intern convert some old preset-tabs documentation too, have not compared it with what you did yet
14:10:44 <kmlussier> yboston: I think it's the same thing, except I added auto-login stuff that wasn't available in 2.1.
14:11:02 <kmlussier> The original docs came from me, and I had them sitting on a PC in asciidoc format all ready to go.
14:11:18 <kmlussier> Correction, they came from Tracy Swaim at MVLC. I just adapted them.
14:11:18 <yboston> kmlussier:  my apologies for not coordinating better
14:12:25 <kmlussier> yboston: Sure, I also knew you were upgrading, so probably should have checked. The question came up in IRC recently, which is why I went looking for them.
14:12:41 <yboston> rsoulliere: do you have anything to report on or comment on?
14:12:53 <rsoulliere> sure, I can go...
14:13:00 <rsoulliere> #topic Conversion Coordinator Report
14:13:05 <rsoulliere> #info  Nothing new to report this time except that we are getting a few more folks contributing directly to the repository.
14:15:08 <rsoulliere> That is the end of my report.
14:15:20 <rsoulliere> ... in case you were waiting for mre ;-)
14:15:35 <rsoulliere> "more"
14:15:36 <yboston> BTW< I am having IRC display issues, which makes it hard to see what folks are saying
14:15:58 <yboston> so thanks rsoulliere  and kmlussier
14:16:11 <yboston> I will go next
14:16:29 <yboston> actually, let me log on and off for a quick moment
14:16:39 <yboston> never mind, that will stop the meetbot meeting
14:17:08 <yboston> #Topic Berklee Spring 2013 intern update
14:17:18 <kmlussier> yboston: No, I don't think it will stop the meeting. IRC kept kicking me out of one of the meetings I was chairing, but I think it went on.
14:17:27 <yboston> #info intern is done with her work, I have started to update this DIG outline page with the sections she converted. Her two last major contributions was Corralling and converting all of the different "cataloging" sections spread out over the various versions of the documentation, into a single section
14:17:40 <yboston> #info on the intern's last day I had her convert the only section that covered "action triggers" in versions 1.6/2.0 of the docs, and I sent a copy to Chris Sharp of PINES, to see if he wanted to update a few things. This is something we talked about after his great presentation on action triggers at the last conference
14:17:58 <rick__> I am having problems getting SIP Server up and running
14:18:10 <yboston> #info on the intern's last day I had her convert the only section that covered "action triggers" in versions 1.6/2.0 of the docs, and I sent a copy to Chris Sharp of PINES, to see if he wanted to update a few things. This is something we talked about after his great presentation on action triggers at the last conference
14:18:36 <yboston> rick__: we are having a documentation meeting until around 3 PM EST
14:18:58 <yboston> rick__:  can you repeat your question when we are done meeting, so someone else can help you?
14:19:22 <kmlussier> yboston++ Corralling the cataloging documentation was a big job that was sorely needed.
14:20:03 <yboston> my approach is to have it all in one asciidoc document, but I have not decided how to best organize it
14:20:22 <yboston> or order it. I also assume there are several sections that can be merged
14:20:33 <yboston> I just wanted to at least have it in asciidoc format
14:21:45 <yboston> #info  "Corralling the cataloging documentation was a big job that was sorely needed."
14:22:18 <kmlussier> yboston: I'm wondering, is it best to have it in one asciidoc document or is it best to break it out into several documents to make it easier to re-organize in the future?
14:22:29 <kmlussier> It's a question I've been pondering as I've been working on my own docs.
14:22:32 <yboston> #info I just wanted to at least have it in asciidoc format. my approach is to have it all in one asciidoc document, but I have not decided how to best organize it or order it. I also assume there are several sections that can be merged
14:23:45 <yboston> kmlussier: there are definite some pro and cons to having a single file, I am not experienced enough to know them off the top of my head
14:24:28 <yboston> kmlussier: I mostly just recreated the approach taken by the older docs we converted, if they were in multiple files we mostly kept them in multiple files.
14:24:45 <kmlussier> yboston: Sounds reasonable.
14:24:47 <rsoulliere> I've taken a 1 file per chapter approach.
14:25:12 <yboston> kmlussier:  for the cataloging docs, i think at first they were in a single file, and since I was in consolidation mode for now I kept them in a single file
14:25:32 <yboston> actually it was the intern that did the "dirty work"
14:27:28 <yboston> I was hoping that whenever I am done submitting the cataloging docs, that I will announce it in the cataloging list (and others) to see if we can get volunteers to expand/edit/merge the docs
14:28:24 <yboston> #info I still need to write a little bit of new content on cataloging with authorities in the cataloging chapter, since the sections are currently blank
14:29:14 <yboston> that is basically all for me. please, please continue with your comments or questions to me, or we can move on to something else
14:29:16 <kmlussier> yboston++ Another area that desperately needs docuementation. Good work!
14:29:32 <kmlussier> +1 to moving on.
14:29:58 <yboston> let me try to reconnect, since it is hard to read the responses
14:30:31 <yboston> what did I miss?
14:30:33 <yboston> :)
14:30:44 <yboston> (beside kathy asking to move on?
14:30:44 <kmlussier> lol - we volunteered you for everything!
14:30:49 <yboston> :)
14:31:23 <rfrasur> kmlussier++
14:31:37 <gmcharlt> #(notreally)agreed yboston will write ALL THE DOC
14:31:46 <yboston> :)
14:31:56 <kmlussier> gmcharlt++
14:32:01 <rfrasur> gmcharlt++
14:32:16 <yboston> the only "old business" I had listed was  "Brainstorm on ideas from Vancouver conference (Yamil)"
14:32:42 <yboston> we can also do some brainstorming on ideas for the next conference, and ideas for a documentation hack-a-way
14:33:35 <yboston> BTW, since I will not be traveling to this conference (since it will be in Boston/Cambridge) I plan to travel for the developer hack-a-way in Spetember, in case someone from DIG was to join me there
14:33:59 <rfrasur> I think this is an area where librarians could potentially (as evidenced by Ms. Lussier) contribute, but I wouldn't know where to begin directing people who want to get involved.
14:34:48 <kmlussier> yboston: I was considering the trip, but it ends on the day before my daughter's birthday, so I'm feeling conflicted.
14:35:10 <yboston> rfrasur brings up an important point. a lot of people in the community, including the Evergreen Oversight Board, how do we lower the bar for participation
14:35:26 <krvmga> i'm at a tech services roundtable atm, which is why i'm not at the DIG meeeting
14:35:54 <rfrasur> Is the hackaway in MI? (am I vaguely remembering it around Calvin College?)
14:36:06 * yboston waves at krvmga
14:36:17 <yboston> rfrasur: yes
14:36:19 * krvmga waves at yboston.
14:36:39 <kmlussier> yboston: I'm somewhat stumped on lowering the barrier. I think it's important that we always reiterate that we take documentation in any format, but we've done it all along.
14:36:41 <rfrasur> (my hometown means free board)
14:36:49 <kmlussier> I think the biggest barrier is time.
14:37:13 <rfrasur> kmlussier: I'm not sure about the bar being lowered as just saying what exactly needs to be documented.
14:37:42 <rfrasur> where do they go to see what is and what needs to be, etc.
14:38:00 <krvmga> i think that's a good idea.
14:38:03 <yboston> for me since I know exactly what needs to be done, time is definitely my biggest issue, but that is also because we can thick of so many things that I could work on for DIG
14:38:29 <krvmga> i was thinking of sponsoring a contest to help with the reports documentation that we're working on right now
14:38:38 <yboston> I am think of what small taks can I decide for a beguiner volunteer that can be broken down in simple chimks, where time is not such a concern
14:38:38 <kmlussier> rfrasur: Sure, with the 2.4 release, I tried to identify some of those needs by pulling this together - http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-docs:2.4_needs
14:39:06 <kmlussier> And I was thinking if I went through the 2.3 release notes, I could come up with a similar list of things that still haven't been documented from 2.3
14:39:08 <rfrasur> kmlussier++
14:39:15 <yboston> sorry, "simple chunks"
14:39:47 <kmlussier> But, then, there are things like some of the admin interfaces for the new search features. I think there are very few people in the DIG community who would know how to document those.
14:40:08 <rfrasur> yboston: I think that'd be a great way to get more involvement from libs...and then, with experience, new people could take larger chunks.
14:40:41 <rfrasur> honestly, I think (know) a lot of librarians that know stuff but are afraid they don't know enough to be of value.
14:40:46 <kmlussier> yboston: bitsize documentation needs? :)
14:41:00 <rfrasur> (funsize?)
14:41:08 <kmlussier> Sorry, I meant to say bitesize.
14:41:09 <yboston> kmlussier: exactly, just like what we do for google summer of code candidates
14:41:50 <yboston> kmlussier: but of course it takes effort to come up with those
14:42:16 <rfrasur> bitsize might be appropriate at times :D
14:42:28 <yboston> also I am thinking of giving a session of just solely teaching people how to write ascii doc.
14:42:34 <krvmga> all the bitesized things i have require more detailed knowledge ofthe system in order to document
14:42:38 <rfrasur> yboston++
14:42:49 <yboston> at the conference, and asking people to bring their laptops so we all leave the session with some documentation ccreated
14:42:56 <krvmga> yboston: how about converting from various formats into asciidoc?
14:43:06 <rfrasur> krvmga: developer level knowledge?
14:43:29 <yboston> like from microsoft word to asciidoc
14:43:31 <yboston> ?
14:43:31 <krvmga> rfrasur: in many cases
14:43:55 <krvmga> yboston: one of my staff has done a pile of documentation of report data sources but its all in an excel spread sheet !!!
14:43:56 <rfrasur> yboston: I'd go to that session and encourage others to do the same.  during the hackfest or conference proper?
14:44:16 <yboston> rfrasur: either
14:44:25 <krvmga> yboston:so i'm trying to work with her to get it out of the sheet and into asciidoc
14:44:30 <yboston> or maybe create a screen cast
14:45:24 <krvmga> yboston: or, for instance, i have a bunch of documentation in LaTeX
14:45:51 <krvmga> there may already be a converter for that
14:45:55 <rfrasur> yboston:here's one vote in favor fwiw
14:47:55 <yboston> krvmga: you definitely made me think what to do after I teach the basics of asciidoc, I can bring in some word submission and have the class convert different chunks, for example
14:48:08 <krvmga> yboston++
14:48:27 <rfrasur> yboston++
14:48:33 <gmcharlt> krvmga++ # LaTex
14:48:44 <krvmga> gmcharlt: lol
14:49:26 <gmcharlt> anybody_writing_doc_in_structured_formats_including_Word_using_styles_properly++
14:49:43 <rfrasur> gmcharlt++
14:49:46 <krvmga> gmcharlt++
14:49:53 <yboston> my main theme is that I want people to participate in a hands on training session via a webinar/google hangout/confernce session. they need to bring their laptops and get their hands dirty
14:50:10 <krvmga> yboston: yes, i think that's a great plan.
14:50:27 <rfrasur> yboston: great idea.  how about tomorrow?
14:50:38 * rfrasur kids...or not.
14:51:18 <kmlussier> yboston++
14:51:20 <yboston> at the latest I want to do this at the next conference, but I would prefer it happens outside of the usual DIG meeting time
14:51:39 <yboston> but perhaps that will be the only time
14:51:45 <kmlussier> Related to that, we have been talking about having a full-day DIG hackfest at next year's conference, and I really would love to see that happen.
14:52:03 <rfrasur> yboston: I agree that it should be separate
14:52:09 <rfrasur> kmlussier++
14:52:15 <krvmga> kmlussier++
14:52:22 <yboston> even if we only end up working for two hours and then an hour for our DIG meeting, that will be a step forward
14:52:23 <phasefx> random thought, try to invite trainers
14:52:52 <kmlussier> phasefx++
14:53:04 <yboston> phasefx++
14:53:08 <rfrasur> kmlussier: that sounds like a great idea.  would having a DIG training workshop (or whatever you want to call it) be appropriate during hackfest?
14:53:19 <rfrasur> phasefx++
14:53:21 <krvmga> phasefx++
14:54:24 <yboston> rfrasur: I think it is, though there is the tough decision if it should happen in the same room
14:54:31 <kmlussier> rfrasur: I think it would be a great way to kick off the hackfest. They can then apply the new skills they learned during the hackfest.
14:55:09 <yboston> one of the things we want to extoll is that anyone in the community can contribute something, even if they are not coders
14:55:18 <krvmga> kmlussier: yes, good observation
14:55:19 <rfrasur> I'll be honest.  I didn't go to the hackfest this past year because it didn't seem like something I could contribute...
14:55:26 <rfrasur> yboston: exactly
14:55:57 <kmlussier> rfrasur: But if you knew there was something specifically for people who want to do documentation, would you have looked at it differently?
14:56:21 <rfrasur> kmlussier: yes - and that's why I was interested in who was planning what.
14:57:53 <yboston> back to the theme of trainers. I want to see sessions where we do hands on training (if possible). we there will be some explanations and some pre-panned bite size problems for everyone to solve, that are solvable in a straighahead way
14:58:39 <yboston> without toying up a developer that could be collaborating with other developers during the hackfest
14:58:43 <rfrasur> kmlussier:two reasons - first, speaking for myself, if I knew there was something that I could do (like write documentation), I'd be there to do it.  Second, more broadly, you put people working toward a common goal (the awesomeness and world domination of EG) together and it builds enthusiasm...and giving them something to do gets them there.
15:00:16 <yboston> btw, it is 3 PM EST
15:00:35 <rfrasur> yboston: This is a great idea.  I wouldn't know how to implement it, but it's a great idea.
15:00:55 <rfrasur> "this" referring to everything you said.
15:01:08 <yboston> #idea think of ways to offer hands-on documentation training during conference hackfest
15:01:48 <yboston> #idea think of ways to offer hands-on documentation training during developer hack-a-way or separate DIG hack-a-way
15:03:19 <yboston> should we wrap up for now? or do we want to go on a little longer?
15:04:55 <kmlussier> I need to wander off.
15:05:31 <krvmga> i'll just be hanging out here in case i need to ask a question
15:06:01 <yboston> OK folks, until next month
15:06:09 <krvmga> thanks!
15:06:12 <krvmga> yboston++
15:06:17 <kmlussier> yboston++
15:06:30 <yboston> #endmeeting