15:03:18 <jvwoolf> #startmeeting Reports Interest Group
15:03:18 <pinesol_green> Meeting started Mon May  9 15:03:18 2016 US/Eastern.  The chair is jvwoolf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:03:18 <pinesol_green> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:03:18 <pinesol_green> The meeting name has been set to 'reports_interest_group'
15:03:54 <jvwoolf> Hello everyone! The meeting agenda can be found here: http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=evergreen-reports:meetings:2016-05-09
15:04:04 <jvwoolf> Let's get started with introductions.
15:04:17 * jvwoolf is Jessica Woolford, Bibliomation, CT
15:04:40 * cag00 is Carol Yarrison from Bibliomation
15:06:36 * rhamby_ is Rogan Hamby, Equinox Software
15:08:32 <jvwoolf> Hey cag00 and rhamby_. Anybody else?
15:10:22 <terran> #info terran is Terran McCanna, PINES, GA
15:10:39 <jvwoolf> Welcome, terran!
15:12:46 <jvwoolf> I'll give folks another couple of minutes to roll in, but if it stays this small, maybe we'll just have a casual discussion.
15:13:06 <terran> csharp is planning to attend, but will be a few minutes late
15:13:06 <jeff> #info jeff is Jeff Godin - Traverse Area District Library (TADL)
15:13:48 <jvwoolf> Hi jeff
15:14:00 <jvwoolf> terran: Thanks for the info
15:15:33 <jvwoolf> Well, might as well get started
15:15:59 <jvwoolf> #topic 2016 Conference Discussion
15:16:38 <jvwoolf> I thought there were a lot of great reports programs at the conference this year
15:16:54 <jvwoolf> Did anyone learn anything new?
15:17:18 <jvwoolf> (Most folks here were presenting on the topic, I think)
15:17:35 * cag00 yes, I think so
15:17:58 <cag00> I enjoyed the preconference reports session
15:18:08 <cag00> Now I understand what a link is...
15:18:30 <jeff> Are any materials from any of the pre-conference sessions available? I'm interested to see what sorts of things were covered.
15:18:32 <jvwoolf> csharp++ He does a good job.
15:18:33 <terran> I got a lot out of Chris Sharp's and Rogan Hamby's pre-conference sessions, and feel like I understand aggregate fields and the field mapper a little better.
15:19:05 <rhamby_> My discussion was pretty free form based on what attendees had questions about so I don't have much in the way of materials per se to share.
15:19:30 * cag00 You always do a good job
15:19:50 <jvwoolf> rhamby_++
15:19:55 <jeff> Were there any wishlists that came out of either session's discussions?
15:20:14 <jeff> wishlists, buglists, etc?
15:20:40 <rhamby_> Not so much out of mine but there's always a huge laundry list of things that people want from reports.
15:20:43 * csharp appears
15:20:46 <jvwoolf> jeff: They were more informational than aspirational, I think
15:20:58 <jvwoolf> csharp: Welcome!
15:21:37 <jeff> rhamby_: Sorry, I don't think I parsed that one successfully: "there's always a huge list but not this time?"
15:21:58 <rhamby_> jeff: there are always a lot of things people want but they didn't come during my session
15:22:07 <jeff> rhamby_: got it.
15:22:15 <rhamby_> that should be "come up during my session"
15:22:27 <rhamby_> I'm suffering from "brain ahead of fingers-itis" today
15:24:26 <jeff> rhamby_: that's okay. i originally joined this meeting via my phone as I walked in the building. I'm lucky I didn't state my affiliation as "Ytsbrtdr Strs Fodytovy :ontstu (YSF:)"
15:25:27 <jvwoolf> rhamby_: You cleared something up for me during your session that I had wondered about
15:25:53 <jvwoolf> Namely that is doesn't matter which table is referenced first in an ON statement
15:26:05 <rhamby_> jvwoolf: I'm glad that helped :)
15:26:48 <jvwoolf> I had been writing statements the way you described, (with the joined table to the right of the =), but didn't know the other way was correct as well.
15:27:17 * jvwoolf is learning to love SQL
15:27:42 <jeff> So, with more people more-well-versed in writing SQL queries, is there any more interest in having a nice frontend way to run those queries, as in Jasper Reports Server or similar?
15:28:55 <csharp> jeff: re: materials from my preconf - I just had an outline that I sent to the conference planning committee last week - it isn't up on the conf site yet, but I'm happy to share with anyone
15:29:21 <jeff> csharp: cool! i'd be interested. i think you have my contact info. :-)
15:30:09 <jvwoolf> jeff: I'm always interested in better ways to deliver reports to libraries.
15:30:10 <rhamby_> I'm a proponent of an interface for running sql queries in the staff client with variables that could be filled in by authorized users.  I don't know how popular that idea would be.
15:30:47 <jeff> rhamby_: that sounds like something else entirely. what would your use case be?
15:30:58 <jeff> rhamby_: not reporting, but something else?
15:31:24 <chtrotter> Hey, all. Cristina Trotter from Oconee Regional Library System (PINES) here. Apologies for arriving late.
15:31:27 <rhamby_> jeff: my vision for it would be reporting.  it could conceivably be extended to other sql functions but that's not what I had in mind.
15:31:41 <jvwoolf> Welcome, chtrotter!
15:31:53 <cag00> rhamby_: I think that is basically what we had in WebReporter used in Horizon days
15:32:57 <rhamby_> cag00: My horizon memory is a little vague these days (I used to be a Horizon user) but I think there would be superficial similarities, more from parallel evolution than one following the other though.
15:33:00 <csharp> people *say* they want a direct SQL interface, but I'm pretty sure they don't actually want to be writing raw queries against the DB as-is - I think we'd need far more end-user-friendly views in place
15:33:11 <jeff> rhamby_: then perhaps you're exactly describing something like jasper. further discussion may be warranted. :-)
15:34:08 <rhamby_> jeff: I think Jasper has a good place too.  I don't think there is such a thing as a single viable reports solution for all users.  I'm sure there's at least two, and I could easily be convinced there are three separate types of users and needs.
15:34:41 <terran> It would be handy if the Reporter interface would show you the SQL that it's generating on the fly, so that you could see what it's doing prior to actually running the report.
15:35:16 <cag00> terran: I agree, I could learn better that way too
15:36:07 <jvwoolf> jeff: Did you do a program on Jasper in years past?
15:36:40 <jeff> I did. It has changed a bit since then, as has our usage here.
15:37:12 <chtrotter> As a library staff member who is on the advanced end of reporting using the staff client, I would definitely *love* some sort of access to running SQL queries. I certainly would not complain if it were a more user-friendly front-end user interface.
15:39:07 <jvwoolf> jeff: I would love to hear about how it has changed. Not that I remember much about it, other than it was cool.
15:39:11 <rhamby_> I think one thing we gave up in exchange for more power in the reporter over the years was less overhead for casual users.
15:39:36 <rhamby_> I don't think this is a bad thing but it's a trade off that's hard to avoid.
15:41:10 <chtrotter> jvwoolf: Is there a way we can have an interest group meeting via some webinar software... and maybe where we can sweet talk jeff into showing us how they are using Jasper?
15:41:39 <cag00> jvwoolf: I second that motion.
15:41:59 <jvwoolf> jeff: Can we bribe you with kharma?
15:42:02 <jeff> heh
15:42:05 <jvwoolf> jeff++
15:42:23 <cag00> I do not remember much about the product other than it was cool as jvwoolf said
15:43:29 <jeff> Sounds worth some prep time. I'll see what I can do. Mostly I'm glad to hear that there's some interest. It's lonely out here all by ourselves. :-)
15:43:46 <chtrotter> jeff++
15:43:50 <cag00> jeff++
15:45:03 <rhamby_> I'm not familiar with Jasper but it sounds like a great solution for a lot of users.
15:45:27 <rhamby_> jeff: is it fairly straight forward to export and import some kind of template with it?
15:45:50 <rhamby_> What I'm thinking of is so that there would be an easy mechanism for community members to share reports.
15:46:34 <jeff> That's my hope.
15:46:49 <cag00> That would be very nice.
15:47:12 <jeff> Sorry to keep beating the "we use Jasper" drum. I'll lay off now. :-)
15:47:34 <jvwoolf> jeff: No worries. :)
15:47:52 <jvwoolf> Looks like your drum beats attracted some interest
15:47:54 <jeff> There's some interest -- that's good enough for me to put some more time into writing some things up.
15:48:08 <cag00> I would like to hear more about Jasper, it has been awhile since you presented
15:49:14 <csharp> jeff: well, you know I'm interested too :-)
15:50:04 <jvwoolf> Not too change gears too quickly, but csharp and terran: I'm very excited about the Quick Reporter
15:50:25 <csharp> we're pretty happy with it too
15:51:14 <terran> Our users are too! bmills installed it on his test server during our session at the conference and had it up and running by the time we left :)
15:51:43 <jvwoolf> Wow! I should have paid attention to what he was doing. I was sitting right next to him!
15:52:33 <jvwoolf> terran: Your materials are posted, right?
15:52:43 <terran> He found a handful of small issues that we need to tweak, but nothing huge.
15:52:54 <chtrotter> Yes, the Quick Reporter has been super helpful for branch managers and department heads around here.
15:52:57 <terran> Yes, everything should be posted - and feel free to ask us questions
15:53:37 <jeff> csharp, terran: Are any of the earlier commits of the report creator / quick reporter interface available?
15:55:02 <csharp> jeff: well, it wasn't developed in git - just committed there at the end - is there something we can find out for you?
15:55:15 <jeff> And is there a preferred place to track issues, like those that bmills identified already?
15:55:29 <terran> jeff: the earlier versions were PINES-specific and I believe they're in the PINES repo - csharp, do you know for sure
15:56:05 <csharp> they aren't publicly available - the current repo clobbered what was put there last year
15:56:17 <jeff> csharp: mostly I was curious, nothing specific. The files contain copyright dates going back to 2005, so I thought that there might be more history somewhere.
15:56:42 <jeff> csharp: The revision logs are often very useful in determining intent when the docs / comments don't state things explicitly.
15:56:44 <csharp> oh - hmm - that would either be using older files from something else or a typo ;-)
15:56:50 <csharp> right
15:56:54 <terran> I'm guessing typo :D
15:57:15 <jeff> Ah. Perhaps a copy-paste from Evergreen without changing the date.
15:57:22 <csharp> well, our contractors don't "live" in git like the EG project does, so there's been a learning curve
15:58:31 <jeff> Since the first date I noticed was in the file COPYING, I'm betting that one of your requirements was "same license as Evergreen, please" -- and thus, an exact copy of COPYING. :-)
15:59:03 <jeff> Thanks for satisfying my curiosity on that one.
15:59:14 <csharp> jeff: probably it
15:59:48 <jeff> As for issue tracking -- any thoughts? Do you have a list anywhere of the things bmills found?
16:00:15 <terran> So far it's just a list sitting in my in-box that I haven't had a chance to go over yet.
16:00:23 <jeff> Got it. :-)
16:01:26 <jeff> What do your users like best about it, and what do you like best about it?
16:02:10 <terran> Since it's an add-on, and not part of Evergreen, we'll need to set up something outside of Evergreen's Bug Tracker - maybe a different launchpad account
16:04:00 <jvwoolf> terran: Keep us posted!
16:04:29 <jvwoolf> I have to run soon but there were a couple other things I wanted to mention.
16:04:45 <terran> Our libraries have reported that the interface is more user-friendly / less intimidating, and it's easier for them to find the reports they need. We like that it's reduced the number of help desk questions we get dramatically.
16:05:11 <terran> I also like that I can run reports from my phone :D
16:05:37 <jvwoolf> First, I don't think akilsdonk is around but I hope she posts her slides! I found her session on acqusitions reports very helpful.
16:05:44 * jvwoolf doesn't speak acq.
16:05:56 <jvwoolf> terran: That is awesome!
16:06:41 <csharp> oh, we can also share our documentation for the reports we have added to quick reports - they depend on reporter.classic_item_list pretty heavily (which is a PINES view that doesn't match others' setups, but could probably be enabled without any real harm)
16:07:10 <csharp> I heard from our acq person that akilsdonk's session was excellent
16:07:25 <jeff> csharp: the same reporter.classic_item_list that's in Open-ILS/src/sql/Pg/example.reporter-extension.sql in the Evergreen source, or modified from that?
16:07:41 <csharp> jeff: yeah, that one, unmodified
16:07:55 <csharp> in fact, when I modify it in PINES, I modify it there first :-)
16:08:11 <csharp> since it's kind of "ours"
16:08:13 <jeff> csharp++
16:08:23 <jeff> you're a good man, charlie bro^W^Wcsharp
16:08:52 <jvwoolf> csharp: Looks like the templates are posted along with the presentation notes
16:09:27 <csharp> oh good
16:09:34 <csharp> jeff: :-D
16:10:04 <jvwoolf> One last thing before I have to depart
16:10:22 <jvwoolf> #topic Meeting schedule
16:10:25 <csharp> (then we'll start the REAL meeting :-))
16:10:54 <jvwoolf> csharp: I see liberal use of @bartender in the future
16:11:00 <csharp> ha!
16:11:30 <jvwoolf> Anyhow, does anyone object to chaging the meeting schedule to quarterly?
16:11:54 <jvwoolf> I can put something out on the list too, just figured I'd float it here first
16:11:59 <csharp> no objections here, since attempts at monthly meetings have quickly petered out the past
16:13:29 <jeff> works for me. i suspect if we do it properly more things will be done between meetings and in list conversations than during meetings.
16:14:12 <jvwoolf> I agree.
16:14:26 <jvwoolf> I'm thinking September or October for the next meeting
16:14:44 <jvwoolf> jeff: Would that be enough time for you to put something together on Jasper Reports?
16:14:50 <cag00> Sounds good to me
16:15:06 <jvwoolf> Or do you want to save that for the conference?
16:15:33 <jeff> I would hope to have shared many interesting things before then, and would be happy to discuss if folk were still interested.
16:16:21 <jvwoolf> Cool, thanks. I'll be in touch. :)
16:16:38 <csharp> hopefully I will get around to setting up a jasper test instance before then too :-)
16:16:42 <jvwoolf> And eagerly awaiting the things you'll share :)
16:16:58 <csharp> jvwoolf++ # thanks for setting up this meeting
16:17:09 <terran> and I'll figure out a Quick Reports bug tracker site before then...
16:17:16 <terran> jvwoolf++
16:17:18 <chtrotter> jvwoolk++
16:17:27 <jvwoolf> Thanks for coming everyone!
16:17:50 <jvwoolf> #endmeeting