2009-10-16T00:10:35 *** brendan_ga_ has quit IRC 2009-10-16T00:24:53 *** brendan_ga has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T00:42:52 evening #evergreen 2009-10-16T01:00:07 herro 2009-10-16T01:07:52 *** mck9 has left #evergreen 2009-10-16T01:08:50 heya phasefx_ 2009-10-16T01:09:07 you're always up late :) 2009-10-16T01:11:42 yeah, I'm an insomniac %-) 2009-10-16T01:11:50 I suffer too 2009-10-16T01:12:01 err.. not suffer 2009-10-16T01:12:13 but get some things done at weird times :) 2009-10-16T01:12:20 * phasefx_ nods 2009-10-16T01:12:42 but that is always good for client updates or upgrades 2009-10-16T01:12:45 I wonder what I would do if I didn't have to sleep. Try out a second career of some sort 2009-10-16T01:13:16 or catch up on things that I should of done 2009-10-16T01:13:50 well, yeah :) but hopefully you wouldn't have to catch up every night *8) 2009-10-16T01:14:22 unless you're talking about hot air ballooning.. lots of catching up in that vein, for me :) 2009-10-16T01:14:44 so I'm still slowly adjusting to cvs -- still prefer git :) 2009-10-16T01:15:04 I like git, but git-svn is broken for me 2009-10-16T01:15:10 wondering if gmcharlt is pushing you guys about that 2009-10-16T01:16:31 there's a bit of git use at Equinox 2009-10-16T01:16:52 good to hear 2009-10-16T01:17:06 are you attending the dev meeting in the morning? 2009-10-16T01:17:13 planning on it 2009-10-16T01:17:18 cool deal 2009-10-16T01:17:20 brb 2009-10-16T01:17:20 7am PST time right 2009-10-16T01:26:39 * phasefx_ isn't sure. One time zone converter says 10am in EST is 8am in PST8 with daylight savings time in effect 2009-10-16T01:26:58 10 EST 2009-10-16T01:27:08 we're 3 hours behind at all times :) 2009-10-16T01:27:53 3 hours relaxed 2009-10-16T01:35:54 back 2009-10-16T01:36:05 screwed up my mysql database for a sec 2009-10-16T01:36:16 had to scramble and reset the URL 2009-10-16T03:25:40 *** brendan_ga_ has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T03:32:16 *** brendan_ga has quit IRC 2009-10-16T03:37:04 *** brendan_ga_ has quit IRC 2009-10-16T06:20:36 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T07:25:59 *** wlayton has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T07:53:26 *** bott_otr has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T07:57:45 *** mck9 has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T08:11:28 *** kbeswick has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T08:18:11 *** gdunbar has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T08:18:20 *** HitScan has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T08:53:07 *** djfiander has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T09:02:58 * jeff yawns 2009-10-16T09:03:00 morning, all. 2009-10-16T09:03:53 mornin' 2009-10-16T09:03:54 *** phase_bb has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:07:55 gutentag 2009-10-16T09:08:46 *** rschiffman has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T09:10:37 *** bshum has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:11:43 *** Stuart_ has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:12:56 *** Stuart_ has quit IRC 2009-10-16T09:13:07 *** Stuart_ has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:14:21 *** meliss has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T09:18:35 *** chris_sharp has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:20:53 you can't see me. I'm not really here. 2009-10-16T09:27:25 *** grahamf has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:27:58 can't see me either. :) 2009-10-16T09:30:19 *** rmatott has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:35:52 *** natschil has quit IRC 2009-10-16T09:38:31 i love seeing all the agenda items. it's going to be hard to keep this meeting under 6 hours, though ;) 2009-10-16T09:39:39 *** dbs has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:39:56 berick: type fast :-) 2009-10-16T09:40:08 * berick slides a cup o' joe to dbs 2009-10-16T09:40:12 chrissharp123: there you go.. 2009-10-16T09:40:31 * dbs is boiling water to brew a pot as we speak/type 2009-10-16T09:40:33 or create a committee for a given item and punt 2009-10-16T09:40:58 I'm guessing this is if we get bogged down on a specific item? 2009-10-16T09:41:15 i was just commenting on the awesome fullness of the agenda 2009-10-16T09:41:30 so, yes 2009-10-16T09:42:36 fully agreed with that approach 2009-10-16T09:43:33 my 10:00 has been cancelled, so you can all see me now. 2009-10-16T09:44:11 looks like my extortion letter worked! 2009-10-16T09:44:24 *** jamesrf has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:44:44 I blame bacon lung, actually. 2009-10-16T09:44:55 of course, now I actually need to go look at the agenda. 2009-10-16T09:48:19 For those that also need a refresher (like me): http://open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:meetings:2009-10 2009-10-16T09:48:26 *** wjr has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:48:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dbs 2009-10-16T09:48:51 *** dbs changes topic to "Dev meeting agenda: http://ur1.ca/dqnv | Welcome to the #Evergreen library system channel! | We are publicly logged. | Large pastes at http://paste.lisp.org/new/evergreen" 2009-10-16T09:48:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: -o dbs 2009-10-16T09:49:06 yay djfiander++ 2009-10-16T09:49:29 (kbeswick was just in my office asking where the agenda was - heh) 2009-10-16T09:49:40 we might want to try putting time limits on the agenda items, with a focus on reaching agreement on as much as possible and then punting to committee/mailing list for further discussion/resolution 2009-10-16T09:50:14 * moodaepo nomintes dbs to be the time keeper 2009-10-16T09:50:31 2 minutes for acquisitions 2009-10-16T09:50:31 ouch need coffee - s/nomintes/nominates/ 2009-10-16T09:50:47 * djfiander wonders why his headset isn't working on this meeting teleconference. 2009-10-16T09:51:37 holy cow, there's an agenda... what's wrong with you people? don't you know this is *evergreen*? :) 2009-10-16T09:51:55 but where's the link to the hidden agenda? 2009-10-16T09:52:16 *** BAr_ has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:52:17 I'm only here because I need some billable hours before I go on strike from my day job. 2009-10-16T09:52:23 * bradl does his best haughty french laugh 2009-10-16T09:52:24 argh / hah 2009-10-16T09:52:31 It's on the welcome banner. Yay I win a prize! 2009-10-16T09:52:52 Hello. Anybody in the mood for help a noob with a install problem? 2009-10-16T09:53:24 BAr_: sure, we're starting a meeting in about 7 minutes but fire away 2009-10-16T09:53:27 BAr_ Ask away, we are starting a meeting here soon so if you see people talking over you don't mind them. 2009-10-16T09:53:51 I'll try and make it quick! I installed Evergreen and tested it....everything was fine, then : 2009-10-16T09:54:25 I changed Posrgres to listen on more than localhost and gave the box a staic IP address,. Since then, I get this: Unable to connect to remote service open-ils.auth 2009-10-16T09:54:56 * moodaepo still votes for a separate #evergreen-dev for special occasions. 2009-10-16T09:55:41 BAr_: you still get that after restarting the opensrf services? 2009-10-16T09:55:49 #evergreen-secret-lair 2009-10-16T09:56:03 BAr_ are you able to connect to postgres remotely? 2009-10-16T09:56:09 yep...I ran the test settings perl script and no errors 2009-10-16T09:56:14 #evergreen-magical-forest 2009-10-16T09:56:17 Yep, can connect to Postgres fine 2009-10-16T09:56:33 BAr_ how about locally, on the command line? 2009-10-16T09:56:43 #eg-repo-cabal 2009-10-16T09:56:50 with the same credentials as you use for EG 2009-10-16T09:56:51 um....good question.....one sec and I'll try 2009-10-16T09:57:08 if it were the magical forest, there'd be more programmer-fairies than there are. 2009-10-16T09:57:10 BAr_ > http://open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=troubleshooting:checking_for_errors&s[]=trouble 2009-10-16T09:57:20 *** brendan_ga has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:57:30 settings-tester uses the same credentials as EG does 2009-10-16T09:57:36 *** Dyrcona has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T09:58:04 Thanks....i was searching everywhere for TS docs.....I will make my way through that, thanks! 2009-10-16T09:58:29 I guess we need a volunteer or two to put together a summary of the meeting 2009-10-16T09:58:30 *** ColinC has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T09:59:29 I can put together a summary tonight (on the wiki, I suppose?) 2009-10-16T09:59:35 I'll volunteer for this sine I won't be doing much else. 2009-10-16T10:00:04 wlayton/moodaepo: that would be awesome 2009-10-16T10:00:22 morning 2009-10-16T10:00:41 could post it to the evergreen blog for broader distribution, too 2009-10-16T10:01:06 ding ding ding, it's 10:00 AM EDT! 2009-10-16T10:01:48 52 nicks in the channel, that's gotta be a record 2009-10-16T10:02:28 you guys throw a heck of a party 2009-10-16T10:02:35 Ok so we start at the beginning of the agenda? 2009-10-16T10:02:44 I knew there was a reason I showed up. I can help on the record. 2009-10-16T10:03:00 rschiffman++ 2009-10-16T10:03:19 what about a roll call/names? 2009-10-16T10:03:38 * Dyrcona is just lurking. 2009-10-16T10:03:46 http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=community:irc_channel 2009-10-16T10:03:51 berick++ 2009-10-16T10:04:01 berick++ 2009-10-16T10:04:02 of course, if everyone tries to edit that at once.. ;) 2009-10-16T10:04:30 *** greg_g is now known as greg-g 2009-10-16T10:04:35 the order of the agenda looks reasonable to me, especially with the focus on 1.6 release first 2009-10-16T10:05:42 So core devs status report please 2009-10-16T10:06:44 George's list of acq problems/questions was ratholed quickly into a discussion about how to track bugs - berick, are those real and/or showstoppers? 2009-10-16T10:06:49 i can comment on item #1 (george's reported acq bugs) 2009-10-16T10:06:53 heh 2009-10-16T10:07:28 ACQ in 1.6 is not meant to be production ready. we're collecting bug reports, suggestions, etc. 2009-10-16T10:07:48 so I have bookmarked George's bugs and will make sure they are dealt with 2009-10-16T10:07:55 but they are not showstoppers for 1.6 2009-10-16T10:08:27 sound reasonable? 2009-10-16T10:08:30 berick: For the record, I haven't been able to reproduce the third bug in that list, and the fourth is a feature request 2009-10-16T10:08:41 *** branflakes_bc has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T10:08:50 berick: sounds okay. we should probably convert his report into separate bugs/features... somewhere 2009-10-16T10:08:55 wlayton: and some of them are probably already fixed in post-1.6 2009-10-16T10:09:23 berick: you're porting fixes back to rel_1_6 or all the way to rel_1_6_0? 2009-10-16T10:10:03 dbs: most ACQ features are ported to rel_1_6. anything that is critically broken will also be backport to rel_1_6_0 2009-10-16T10:10:32 berick: The first one is a bit of a concern for us, though, as it brings up an ugly error dialog box. We don't want staff to be confronted by that, if possible. 2009-10-16T10:10:35 there are still a number of partially developed (but they don't get in the way) features only in trunk 2009-10-16T10:11:10 wlayton: ok, thanks. 2009-10-16T10:11:29 dbs: agreed on putting the bugs somewhere, presumably trac for now 2009-10-16T10:11:30 okay - we have "acquisitions" as a separate agenda item so we can delve deeper then, perhaps? 2009-10-16T10:11:35 sure 2009-10-16T10:11:52 next is repke's authority import report - did anyone try reproducing his problem? 2009-10-16T10:12:57 i have not 2009-10-16T10:13:41 authority record import in vandelay is expected to work, though, yeah? Perhaps there are some assumptions about the incoming records that we need to document? 2009-10-16T10:14:15 if it is expected to work, does someone want to volunteer to (attempt to) reproduce? 2009-10-16T10:14:34 jeff++ # good suggestion 2009-10-16T10:14:36 dbs: it is expected to work 2009-10-16T10:15:32 I'll volunteer to add his records to the test datasets, in case his web server dies 2009-10-16T10:16:05 dbs: if you add the recs, I'll test the upload 2009-10-16T10:16:05 deal 2009-10-16T10:16:05 *** swills has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T10:16:07 I am looking at the mails for that issue and maybe mrpeters-isl has something to add? 2009-10-16T10:16:11 *** swills is now known as Stev3 2009-10-16T10:16:44 kgs mentions that it's on the DIG server and mrpeters-isl set that up 2009-10-16T10:17:08 good thing to consider when trying to reproduce. 2009-10-16T10:17:18 moodaepo: the problem with acq records, you mean? 2009-10-16T10:17:40 No authority records import 2009-10-16T10:17:44 I know the didn't work early in RC1, but I also know that particular issue was addressed 2009-10-16T10:17:47 i think that all of Repke's attempts were made against the DIG test server. 2009-10-16T10:18:02 sorry, I meant authority 2009-10-16T10:18:24 so if there are problems reproducing elsewhere, an attempt should be made to reproduce on that system, and mrpeters-isl can probably assist with server-side error logs/etc 2009-10-16T10:18:26 okay. so berick's test on rel_1_6_0_0-as-of-today will confirm that it's fixed (or not) 2009-10-16T10:18:29 ok so we think it's fixed and dbs will try a test 2009-10-16T10:19:10 moodaepo: the berick / dbs tag team, but yes 2009-10-16T10:19:12 ah, but i see miker states they should be fixed. missed that line. 2009-10-16T10:19:53 okay - I assume that Repke's other report on importing holdings via MFHD records that are separate from bib records is a post-1.6.0.0 feature request 2009-10-16T10:20:05 dbs: correct 2009-10-16T10:20:09 *whew* 2009-10-16T10:21:02 I saw a bunch of code flying by to do with gmcharlt's "invalid date of birth" issue - that fixed? 2009-10-16T10:21:42 dbs: a different issue was fixed 2009-10-16T10:22:21 not a showstopper, so file it as a bug for post-1.6.0.0? 2009-10-16T10:22:23 in fairness, if i'm reading that right, you almost have to be trying to break things to reproduce gmcharlt's issue 2009-10-16T10:22:46 IWO, ignore a big loud popup 2009-10-16T10:22:51 dbs: agreed 2009-10-16T10:23:11 ah, and gmcharlt says "if nobody picks it up in the next couple days, I might try my hand at a fix" so let's give him ownership of the bug :) 2009-10-16T10:23:33 delegation++ 2009-10-16T10:23:34 dbs++ 2009-10-16T10:23:50 *** ianB_ has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T10:24:08 conify org_unit hours of operation + addresses - wlayton & atz have been poking at this, you guys want to give us an update? 2009-10-16T10:24:33 The Trac ticket is against trunk; in 1.6, I have no problems update hours of operation 2009-10-16T10:24:44 wlayton: submitted a patch, which I applied 2009-10-16T10:24:53 excellent! dbs-- 2009-10-16T10:25:07 (well, not excellent if it's still a bug in trunk but...) 2009-10-16T10:25:21 I don't think it is 2009-10-16T10:25:37 addresses aren't hooked up yet, though. 2009-10-16T10:26:15 wlayton: hooked up? they were ... grumble grumble changing to TT grumble ... 2009-10-16T10:26:28 conify isn't using TT 2009-10-16T10:26:31 * dbs throws a dose of XMLENT in for good measure 2009-10-16T10:26:34 or, they were when conify was standalone 2009-10-16T10:26:54 berick: you absorbed it into your TT-based infrastructure for 1.6, I though 2009-10-16T10:26:55 are we missing a menu entry? or is something broken? 2009-10-16T10:27:17 miker_: just vandelay. conify was too big of a shift to fit in 2009-10-16T10:27:50 k 2009-10-16T10:27:50 is it the hard-coded regex that validates input for fields in a non-canuck friendly way causing silent rejection? 2009-10-16T10:27:50 dbs: No, that's not it. 2009-10-16T10:28:20 well, we're not going to solve it now - let's open a bug and try reproducing it (wlayton, you volunteer?) and move on 2009-10-16T10:28:30 There's some code surrounding the old pcrud calls that doesn't seem valid anymore (testing "isnew" and stuff, which, AFAICT, doesn't apply to those objects...) 2009-10-16T10:28:33 dbs is good at this meeting stuff 2009-10-16T10:28:47 I can volunteer to fix it this weekend... 2009-10-16T10:28:52 wlayton++ 2009-10-16T10:28:54 wlayton++ 2009-10-16T10:29:33 ...but please have a good look at the resulting code! 2009-10-16T10:29:54 and... we probably need to be better about posting responses to problems reported to the mailing list, given that that's the only way most people can currently post a bug report 2009-10-16T10:30:45 Ok I'm a bit confused 2009-10-16T10:30:56 moodaepo: okay, how so? 2009-10-16T10:30:58 wlayton's patch for the conify ticket didn't fix it? 2009-10-16T10:31:12 hours of operation vs. addresses? 2009-10-16T10:31:25 Yea that one. 2009-10-16T10:31:47 [10:25] addresses aren't hooked up yet, though 2009-10-16T10:32:01 ok' 2009-10-16T10:32:12 I'm confused as to why isnew and friends aren't working, as that will have bad effects on PermaCrud, but I'll wait for details 2009-10-16T10:32:37 miker_ I just wanted to clarify for non-core consumption in the notes : ) 2009-10-16T10:32:43 wlayton will reveal all after a fun weekend of poking at it :) 2009-10-16T10:32:51 you can it up with wlayton after hours 2009-10-16T10:33:09 s/can it / can pick it/ 2009-10-16T10:34:17 okay, moving on - i was on a bit of drugs about OpenSRF release, as the docs pointed at a 1.2.0 tarball. 2009-10-16T10:35:29 dbs One sec..did we nominate someone to respond to the mailing list about issues? 2009-10-16T10:35:43 I cut you off when you brought that up 2009-10-16T10:36:29 imo, whoever works the ticket should reply to the list if neccessary, rather than assigning one person to keep tabs on everything 2009-10-16T10:36:34 i think it was a general recommendation that there be more response to bug reports posted on the list, especially in the area of followup after bug resolution 2009-10-16T10:36:59 Will do. 2009-10-16T10:37:10 I'll drink to that. 2009-10-16T10:37:52 I guess a big question for 1.6.0.0 is - are we rolling an RC2 due to the number of changes that have gone in since RC1? 2009-10-16T10:38:23 on the topic of opensrf testing, though, i was working on that in trunk before being handed a stopwork order. i'm currently working on something which'll come up when we get to "release process" 2009-10-16T10:38:33 but everyone can see the status as of that time in a snapshot here http://open-ils.org/~sboyette/osrf_coverage/coverage.html 2009-10-16T10:39:36 sboyette++ 2009-10-16T10:39:54 testing++ 2009-10-16T10:39:54 dbs: fwiw, 1.6.0.0 is in production now. I'd prefer to cut it and focus on 1.6.0.1 for any remaining bug fixes, after wlayton does his weekend stuff 2009-10-16T10:39:57 sboyette++ 2009-10-16T10:40:15 Okay, if we jump directly to a final release, then we can put out a call for translations at the same time 2009-10-16T10:40:26 indeed 2009-10-16T10:41:07 * dbs wonders where 1.6.0.0 is in production, but that's off-topic :) 2009-10-16T10:42:11 dbs: indiana 2009-10-16T10:42:29 mrpeters-isl++ #and company 2009-10-16T10:42:44 moving on 2009-10-16T10:42:53 Ok if we are done with 1.6 we can now move to opensrf? 2009-10-16T10:43:11 so - 1.6.0.0 tarball when? 2009-10-16T10:43:18 Next week? 2009-10-16T10:43:35 should DIG change the download page so that the "latest stable release" is a 1.6 release? 2009-10-16T10:44:07 Stev3: once the final release is there, yep, DIG or whoever 2009-10-16T10:44:09 Stev3 I'd say we wait till core decided it's ready 2009-10-16T10:44:45 okees... i misread ;) back to lurking. 2009-10-16T10:45:23 So 1.6.0.0 tarball? 2009-10-16T10:45:39 miker_: are you going to build the 1.6.0.0 tarball, and if so, what areas do you want help with surrounding the release process? release notes, upgrade notes, etc? 2009-10-16T10:46:27 dbs: I'm planning on doing it, yes. I would love more eyes on the release notes ... we have a draft which I'll share with voluneers 2009-10-16T10:46:51 dbs: and I may need you for help on i18n, though it's less critical since translations are mostly out of date now :( 2009-10-16T10:47:05 but if someone else would rather do it ... 2009-10-16T10:47:09 http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=release_notes_1_6_0_0_rc1 2009-10-16T10:47:12 heh, yeah. _this_ time the i18n stuff should work 2009-10-16T10:47:12 and we'll put a call out after the tarball anyways 2009-10-16T10:47:40 also, and sorry for unannounced agenda item, I'm planning a 1.4.0.7 RSN 2009-10-16T10:47:42 miker_: I think it would be a good idea to have somebody else package a release, but maybe not this time :) 2009-10-16T10:48:11 depending on timing of patches, 1.4.0.7 may come first 2009-10-16T10:48:12 miker_ the release notes will need to be updated I presume 2009-10-16T10:48:17 (on the path to automated tarball builds, subsequent agenda item) 2009-10-16T10:48:17 moodaepo: yes 2009-10-16T10:48:41 Atlanta is asking me for a training server, I will suggest we do that with a 1.6 if that will help with pkg q/a? 2009-10-16T10:49:12 Stev3: sounds like a plan 2009-10-16T10:50:12 so - next week expect a 1.4.0.7 release and a 1.6.0.0 release, with a call for assistance in release notes posted by miker_ when the time comes, and I'll call for translations 2009-10-16T10:50:34 * moodaepo and a tarball of opensrf to go 2009-10-16T10:50:40 the 1_6_0_0_rc1 notes (pasted above) are the 1.6 notes, well 95% of them 2009-10-16T10:51:08 moodaepo: the OpenSRF 1.2.0 tarball is linked from http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=server:1.6.0:install 2009-10-16T10:51:17 ok 2009-10-16T10:51:31 we'll have to add that to the downloads page when the time comes 2009-10-16T10:51:43 moodaepo: opensrf and evergreen are versioned separately these days 2009-10-16T10:52:36 sboyette Yup I knew that...just making sure the proper version of OpenSRF was ready. 2009-10-16T10:52:43 okay. Does that wrap up the 1.6.0.0 release planning? in less than an hour? 2009-10-16T10:52:54 though we don't usually get around to cutting a new opensrf release until there's a pending eg release ... I'd like to see more project autonomy, personally 2009-10-16T10:52:59 #evergreen++ 2009-10-16T10:53:26 incidentally, there are two things I'd like to backport to 1.6.0.0, both relatively minor (a more relaxed "key" for oils_persist, so that sticky settings will survive upgrades, and a bug with fleshing un-rendered list rows when they're scrolled into visibility). I can do this today 2009-10-16T10:54:51 ooh, #2 would make a lot of people happy here. 2009-10-16T10:55:27 * phasefx_ just discovered #2 yesterday :-/ had no idea folks were hitting that 2009-10-16T10:55:53 what is the "Formal support for IE8" in the 1.6 release notes? 2009-10-16T10:57:02 jeff: cross-protocol (http/https) stuff was fixed up 2009-10-16T10:57:02 so that IE8 doesn't take a dump on My Account 2009-10-16T10:57:02 jeff++ 2009-10-16T10:57:10 *** arnt has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T10:57:33 miker_: okay, wasn't sure if the release note bullet was including other changes to support IE8 as well. thanks! 2009-10-16T10:58:01 that caused major problems in IE7 too, fwiw - scary warnings with horrible failure if you said "cancel" 2009-10-16T10:58:20 it resulted in errors/warnings in all browsers, just to varying degrees. 2009-10-16T10:58:35 but I digress. Let's move on to the only outstanding patch that I could find in the ten minutes I devoted to going back through the list 2009-10-16T10:59:11 dbs++ 2009-10-16T10:59:34 wlayton sent a patch that enables bookbags to be exported to refworks, a bibliographic reference application. I'll volunteer to test and shepherd it into the first feature release after 1.6.0.0 2009-10-16T11:00:08 hrm.. I thought I got that in ... maybe just in trunk 2009-10-16T11:00:29 or maybe I'm thinking of another refworks related patch. nm me 2009-10-16T11:00:32 dbs: I think that's wise. It isn't super urgent to add it for 1.6.0.0 (but for 1.6.0.1 or 1.6.0.2 would be nice) 2009-10-16T11:00:49 miker_: That may be the RIS feed you're thinking of, which is in branch_1_6 but not branch_1_6_0 2009-10-16T11:00:51 miker_: yeah, there have been a few wlayton patches in this area 2009-10-16T11:01:12 wlayton: currently, 1.6.0.x are bugfix releases only 2009-10-16T11:01:44 dbs: No problem - 1.6.1.0 or 1.6.2.0, then 2009-10-16T11:01:45 so 1.6.1.0 in the current scheme 2009-10-16T11:02:08 yeppers - and thanks for the patch - Conifer will thank you :) 2009-10-16T11:02:26 wlayton++ 2009-10-16T11:02:48 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T11:03:14 *** rsinger has quit IRC 2009-10-16T11:03:15 So perhaps the RefWorks for bookbags could be added to branch_1_6 as well, and then that's that. 2009-10-16T11:03:41 wlayton: yep, I will do that (with at least a basic UI, although I'm no designer guy) 2009-10-16T11:03:43 Hello. is the developer meeting still going? 2009-10-16T11:03:45 Next item: what do we need to do better? 2009-10-16T11:03:52 natschil: yessir, entering hour #2 2009-10-16T11:04:02 * grahamf wonders if the refworks patch might be useful in our reserves tool as well 2009-10-16T11:04:13 what's currently being discussed? 2009-10-16T11:04:35 natschil: we just passed the release 1.6 section of the agenda 2009-10-16T11:04:49 ok. 2009-10-16T11:04:52 * natschil looks at the logs. 2009-10-16T11:04:54 natschil just finished thanking wlayton for the bookbags-refworks upgrade 2009-10-16T11:04:54 agenda link is in /topic 2009-10-16T11:05:05 finishing up with "Outstanding patches" and moving on to "Lowering the barriers to participation" 2009-10-16T11:05:19 Yup ok moving on.. 2009-10-16T11:05:53 grahamf: it might be, I can't remember how Syrup integrates with bookbags but once it's in place we can see if we can take advantage of it 2009-10-16T11:06:18 it doesn't sound like DIG (based on their survey results in the area of "priority") is going to focus on developer documentation immediately. are others interested in starting to draft up some more "so, you want to help out with evergreen..." docs? 2009-10-16T11:06:23 so... any suggestions on the "how can we help you help out in Evergreen development"? 2009-10-16T11:06:26 jeff++ 2009-10-16T11:06:30 (and i don't have a link to the survey results handy, so i might be mis-remembering) 2009-10-16T11:07:01 dbs: I have a pull-from-bookbag-URL thing in Syrup, but push-from-Evergreen might be better. (We can discuss later.) 2009-10-16T11:07:03 The stuff that I'm rapidly running out of time for to prepare for the development workshop in two weeks might be useful for that 2009-10-16T11:07:58 I think compiling some of the information presented at EG09 would be helpful... 2009-10-16T11:08:00 but given a three-hour workshop, I feel like I'll only be able to cover the broadest of strokes, and more eyes & contributors would be awesome 2009-10-16T11:08:39 there is a list somewhere of "how can I contribute to evergreen", but things there are often quite broad and quite large projects, so maybe that should be revised too. 2009-10-16T11:08:40 if you'd like to share with me after the meeting (or later at your convenience), i'd like to take a stab at some wiki page(s) with the idea of having some starting points / links to existing resources / etc 2009-10-16T11:08:56 berick and miker_ and dbs (& others :-) ) gave good presentations that could be transformed into documentation 2009-10-16T11:09:02 *** eby_ has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T11:09:21 if anyone else is interested in the same, let me know / speak up, etc. i'll post to lists when things have progressed, later next week. 2009-10-16T11:09:26 berick-- 2009-10-16T11:09:28 chrissharp123: yeah - and maybe getting some specific requests for developer-focused sessions or workshops at EG10 in place early 2009-10-16T11:09:39 sound good? 2009-10-16T11:09:40 dbs: great thought 2009-10-16T11:09:48 jeff++ sounds great 2009-10-16T11:09:53 jeff++ 2009-10-16T11:10:06 jeff > http://evergreen-ils.org/blog/?p=257 2009-10-16T11:10:14 jeff += 1 2009-10-16T11:10:16 I often still feel as if I am peeking over the barrier between the EG dev community and the outside so perhaps I can help with the experience of one who is trying to scale that wall? 2009-10-16T11:10:25 i don't think that's all for that agenda item, though. does anyone else have additional ideas? 2009-10-16T11:10:33 berick: you missed some whispace at the start of that line 2009-10-16T11:10:39 berick++ # python :) 2009-10-16T11:10:47 * jeff laughs 2009-10-16T11:10:52 hah 2009-10-16T11:10:53 Already discussed, but I'd like to add that feedback for patches sent to the mailing list is non-existent. 2009-10-16T11:11:09 seconded 2009-10-16T11:11:11 miker_++ yes, I forgot to add STRICT ENFORCEMENT OF CODE FORMATTING!!!! to the agenda 2009-10-16T11:11:18 I've sent patches which didn't get any feedback, only to see them committed weeks later without any discussion... 2009-10-16T11:11:48 wlayton: I've been very bad about that in the past when the code looks good 2009-10-16T11:11:55 wlayton: I've certainly been guilty of that 2009-10-16T11:12:10 yes some people at SITKA have experienced that as well and it's discouraging 2009-10-16T11:12:10 that's one of the things I'm working on ... and why some patches are still lingering 2009-10-16T11:12:19 for "Lowering the barriers to participation" It might be worth adding that all patches are sent over the mailing list, which might not be as practical as, for instance linking them to bugs directly, though that kind of toutches on the point after the next. 2009-10-16T11:12:28 s/toutches/touches/ 2009-10-16T11:12:28 i think the patch problem is closely ralated to the 'lowering the barrier to participation' problem 2009-10-16T11:12:58 similar to bug reports, it might be good if patches made it into trac(or whatever) on a more regular/reliable basis. i know i've submitted a minor patch or two that just wasn't important enough at the time, and there's no easy way to go back later (searching the list archives for uncommitted patches isn't a great way to handle patching, i suppose) 2009-10-16T11:13:03 s/patch problem/patch review problem/ 2009-10-16T11:13:14 (and to be clear, i'm talking about the most minor of typo patches, things like that) 2009-10-16T11:13:48 natschil/jeff: I agree, it can be hard to comb through the mailing list to find out what happened, what's still open... and then threads get broken 2009-10-16T11:14:15 dbs: also, not all who want to contribute will want to sign up for the mailing list which is another barrier. 2009-10-16T11:14:57 whereas, if it was possible to generate a report of outstanding patches and keep the discussion focused on a specific bug/feature, that could be good 2009-10-16T11:15:03 natschil: well, until something else exists and is in use, that's the only place for discussion ... 2009-10-16T11:15:32 I think using trac (yeah yeah, or whatever replaces it) is the right way 2009-10-16T11:15:53 miker_: exactly. 2009-10-16T11:15:56 I'd like to get more mail from whatever bug system we use; in our own Trac instance for Conifer, I've got it set up to email me for any change to any bug (whether I'm CCed or not), and that helps immensely 2009-10-16T11:16:11 dbs: that can be arranged... 2009-10-16T11:16:16 agreed ... berick++ 2009-10-16T11:16:21 dbs, with what? testing the MTBF on your mail server? 2009-10-16T11:16:29 so, if some person(s) were responsible for creating a ticket in track for new patches, then they would not get lost in the archives. 2009-10-16T11:17:02 * miker_ looks for raised hands 2009-10-16T11:17:07 ;) 2009-10-16T11:17:10 it doesn't seem like it would create too much ticket noise. patches (at this point) are still rare (which is the reason for the agenda item in the first place! ;) 2009-10-16T11:17:14 and if it were easy to add yourself as a "email the hell out of me because I'm a busybody and really interested in everything" that would be nice too 2009-10-16T11:17:30 jeff: touché :) 2009-10-16T11:17:37 nod. the procedure for tracking patches should not relay on retrospective searches, for sure. 2009-10-16T11:17:37 Is this where I jump in and ask about switching to a bug tracker that lets non-contributors submit bug reports? 2009-10-16T11:17:51 dbs: isn't that wat rss is for? ... hm... really, though, can trac spit out a feed of updates? 2009-10-16T11:18:00 rely* 2009-10-16T11:18:16 twirlip: that's current point+2, though it really links to this point too. 2009-10-16T11:18:45 twirlip: trac can be made to do that ... but it becomes a morass of configuration problems instead of developer-useful bug reports (IME, based on the bugzilla instance that once was) 2009-10-16T11:18:50 just yesterday i had to create an account on the MongoDB team's tracker in order to submit a bug, and my thought was "really? you're making me sign up to tell you broke something?". so i definitely think that making the bug-reporting barrier nil is the right thing to do, though this (possibly) induces a higher rate of spurious reports and spam, increasing work for the people running the tracker 2009-10-16T11:18:51 I think that one reason why patches are low is that people do not know what a) needs to be done b) is broken. 2009-10-16T11:18:53 any other ideas for lowering the barriers to participation? 2009-10-16T11:18:54 miker_: it can be used for that, but now you're introducing a barrier to me :) 2009-10-16T11:19:10 dbs: how about both email and rss 2009-10-16T11:19:10 but the internet has commodified the shit out of everything, adn the alternative is having people just walk away and ignore you forever 2009-10-16T11:19:25 any core devs interested in making their brains available via irc for interactive brain-picking on a semi-regular basis? 2009-10-16T11:19:34 sboyette++ 2009-10-16T11:20:02 jeff: I'd find more detailed development roadmaps helpful. 2009-10-16T11:20:07 jeff: I can get down with that 2009-10-16T11:20:10 as far as participation goes. 2009-10-16T11:20:20 brain dumping, I mean 2009-10-16T11:20:30 natchil: It's also difficult for people outside to submit substantial patches because the only current dev docs are the code. I speak perl like I speak german: Like a child. ;) 2009-10-16T11:20:30 * moodaepo think even reporting bugs is participation and that should go into a tracker...easily 2009-10-16T11:20:34 handing out bug-filing privileges like candy would work, sort of: once you've reported a problem via email/irc that's real, then you get to file your own. 2009-10-16T11:20:36 if we had an open without account required bug tracker, we would need people who were committed to triaging said bug reports 2009-10-16T11:20:46 * phasefx_ would even love periodic IRC-based hackfests/fix-a-pet-peeve-fests 2009-10-16T11:20:57 dbs true that 2009-10-16T11:20:58 and of course, braindumps on the list can be incredibly helpful also. i've got more than one of miker's "here's the deal with FOO" emails filed away for reference. 2009-10-16T11:21:02 moodaepo: oh for sure, bug reporting is definitely participation! 2009-10-16T11:21:25 djfiander: that's a damned good model 2009-10-16T11:21:48 djfiander++ 2009-10-16T11:21:55 I'm also down with jeff + phasefx's suggestions for periodic IRC brain damage 2009-10-16T11:21:57 HitScan: I think one of the large problems in perl is the absence of header files like in c, where functions, classes, etc can easily be documented. 2009-10-16T11:22:03 yeah also if there is more documentation to help with install/config issues then doesn't that offset some of that in theory? 2009-10-16T11:22:14 so that reduces the barrier to ticket creation to "subscribe to the list and report one valid bug", then you get credentials. how about for what someone just said earlier... those who don't want to subscribe to the list? 2009-10-16T11:22:26 does anyone watch non-subscriber posts to open-ils-dev? 2009-10-16T11:22:35 which list is "the list"? 2009-10-16T11:22:36 (for valid posts to then approve?) 2009-10-16T11:22:50 djfiander: yeah, good question also. :P 2009-10-16T11:23:04 djfiander++ # bug-reporter grey listing 2009-10-16T11:23:06 I think that problem reports that come through on -general should be recognized. If you're not on any lists, you're not participating at all 2009-10-16T11:23:06 jamesrf: that's true - and I think we need to extend the docs to include things like setting up the standard cron jobs & basic group/circ rules configuration howto (natschil had been doing some work on that) 2009-10-16T11:23:07 I'd think non-subscriber posts would just not come through..no? 2009-10-16T11:24:16 * phasefx_ approved a non-subscriber post (really, they were just using an alternate email) on OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION recently. "I don't think I'm notified the same way with the other lists, though 2009-10-16T11:24:24 part of the bug reporting problem lies in the overall documentation problems. I have had problems with EG that are already known, in TRAC and have suggested fixes *IF* one can find the right threads or right way of asking you guys. 2009-10-16T11:24:25 dbs: though that cron jobs document is probably horribly invalid though. 2009-10-16T11:24:30 baby steps. any objections to persons being handed credentials to directly create tickets when they get their "thanks for reporting this bug"? 2009-10-16T11:24:40 natschil: well, it's better than nothing! 2009-10-16T11:25:00 Stev3++ 2009-10-16T11:25:10 jeff: no, that sounds like a great plan 2009-10-16T11:25:13 djfiander++ 2009-10-16T11:25:21 am not sure if I am reporting a bug till I chat with you all and get told to RTFM ... or not. :) 2009-10-16T11:25:23 I concur 2009-10-16T11:25:24 djfiander++ #indeed! 2009-10-16T11:25:26 no objections, I mean 2009-10-16T11:25:51 if we start handing out bug db access, we still need some basic bug db oversight 2009-10-16T11:25:57 not as much, mind you 2009-10-16T11:26:08 berick: which is probably a few agenda items ahead of where we are right now. :) 2009-10-16T11:26:10 would anyone think it might be a good idea to discuss "Bug tracking and QA" now, as it is heavily linked to outside participation? 2009-10-16T11:26:20 berick do you mean to triag (as dbs said) the bugs? 2009-10-16T11:26:36 natschil: I think that's a good idea 2009-10-16T11:26:46 so I don't mind not being able to create my own bug tickets yet... I DO mind not having a clear place to post my wtf to I do now, questions. 2009-10-16T11:26:46 hrm.. crazy idea: 2 bug trackers, 1 "frontline" and one "on top of the code" 2009-10-16T11:27:00 moodaepo: triag and preventing back-logs of old, fixed bugs that were not updated in the bug db 2009-10-16T11:27:11 Stev3: I use #evergreen for that. 2009-10-16T11:27:28 go crazy on the frontline one (within reason, of course) but track actual, code-related stuff only in the on-top-of-the-code one 2009-10-16T11:27:28 miker_: not that crazy, though i can't thnk of any real-world examples to see if it worked well or not. 2009-10-16T11:27:33 Stev3: #evergreen or open-ils-dev or open-ils-general don't work for you? 2009-10-16T11:27:46 jeff: right ... I have no idea just how bad that will actually be 2009-10-16T11:27:53 natschil ;) I get in trouble when I leave my IRC open. i have no chatter self-control ;( 2009-10-16T11:28:11 for developement itself, esp on top of svn, trac is second to none, IMO 2009-10-16T11:28:28 but there are valid complaints about it for end-user bug tracking workflows 2009-10-16T11:28:29 Stev3: you're not alone, there ;) 2009-10-16T11:28:47 berick what we need then is a bug db manager just someone who knows where the bugs should go (ish) 2009-10-16T11:28:47 honestly, a barrier lowering mechanism MIGHT be to welcome folk here faster? not sure. I'll think on it. 2009-10-16T11:28:49 berick: you eyeballin me, boa? ;) 2009-10-16T11:28:50 miker_: hrm. maybe we could use launchpad for the user-friendly interface 2009-10-16T11:28:57 dbs++ 2009-10-16T11:29:05 and translations, and ... and ... 2009-10-16T11:29:15 heh :) you know me 2009-10-16T11:29:16 btw, yes, launchpad++ AFAIC 2009-10-16T11:29:40 launchpad++ 2009-10-16T11:29:42 miker_: I actually like how trac as an end user looking at the actual code , though I haven't tried many of the alternatives 2009-10-16T11:29:42 * jeff goes ahead and moves Bug Tracking and QA next on the agenda 2009-10-16T11:29:43 miker_: you lost me? 2009-10-16T11:29:57 s/like how trac/like how trac is UI wise/ 2009-10-16T11:29:58 berick: Stev3: you're not alone, there ;) 2009-10-16T11:30:00 as a non-developer who seeks out bug reports for Ubuntu, I like launchpad too 2009-10-16T11:30:13 miker_: oh, no, was talking about me and, well, most people 2009-10-16T11:30:16 launchpad can integrate with upstream projects, so it provides a linkage back to our Trac instance too 2009-10-16T11:30:44 Stev3: "welcome folk here faster" how? here as in #evergreen and welcome as in "hi there, Stev3! what can we help you with?"... or something else? :) 2009-10-16T11:30:47 berick: I know :) 2009-10-16T11:31:06 so, right now my job at ESI is "the QA guy". i've had been concentrating on the test suite, and am now working on tools to support the development process in general, but it seems natural for me to volunteer to be bug tracker oversight guy. 2009-10-16T11:31:11 (which was the one thing making me wonder about miker_'s crazy two bug tracker suggestion, but now that doesn't seem so crazy) 2009-10-16T11:31:26 jeff++ # helpful, friendly bots 2009-10-16T11:31:31 ;) 2009-10-16T11:31:33 I actually quite like kde's bug and review system though I'm not sure what its based on. 2009-10-16T11:31:57 sboyette: there's a natural relationship between converting bug reports & fixes into tests 2009-10-16T11:31:57 assuming no one else wants to do it. and history seems to show that no one else wants to do it. 2009-10-16T11:32:01 natschil: the process or the software they use? 2009-10-16T11:32:38 berick: I like the process, i.e. someone submits a bug and a patch, and that then may get forwarded to a review board, where the patch can be discussed. 2009-10-16T11:32:39 sboyette: there can be more than one! I'm sure you could use help with reproducing bugs, for example 2009-10-16T11:32:48 natschil: launchpad supports code reviews 2009-10-16T11:33:26 (but it might be an entirely different form of code review from what KDE uses) 2009-10-16T11:33:43 dbs: I'm not saying the kde system is the best, its just only one of the only ones I've seen :) 2009-10-16T11:34:18 As evergreen grows, there will probably be a number of patches that are controversal whether to accept or not, and therefore it is good if they can easily be discussed. 2009-10-16T11:36:04 and easily kept track of, so we don't piss off people like wlayton or jamesrf (who we really, really don't want to piss off - have you seen those guys? They're MONSTERS!) 2009-10-16T11:36:27 so in addition to sboyette's volunteering to be a bug wrangler (if i read that correctly), do we want to put out a call for a "QA team"? 2009-10-16T11:36:40 right: "Is there general agreement that we should put out a call for a QA team: bug testers & wranglers who would manage the public bug database & verify bugs & build tests to add to the test harness?" 2009-10-16T11:37:29 i should probably post to the dev list about what i had been doing (and was trying to do) in trunk 2009-10-16T11:37:39 in the interest of not having all of those roles fall on sboyette, i'd say "yes, unless sboyette WANTS to do all that work" :) 2009-10-16T11:37:46 sboyette++ # that might help lower the barrier to participation :) 2009-10-16T11:37:56 sboyette: i'd find that useful -- i had been watching your commits with great interest 2009-10-16T11:38:00 that team would need to be made up of patch advocates (or proxies thereof) I think 2009-10-16T11:38:14 jeff: I certainly think a team would be justified 2009-10-16T11:39:03 miker_: well, but also for handling general bug reports and migrating them "upstream" to the dev Trac instance (and, quite likely, developing fixes for some of those bugs) 2009-10-16T11:39:04 IOW, that would be a responisbility of the qa team -- to shove the developers (assuming they are different people) around to get things done, and to keep the discussion going 2009-10-16T11:39:20 right 2009-10-16T11:39:42 * dbs suggests that the QA team name be "Whipcrackers" 2009-10-16T11:39:52 sboyette: want to send out the call for QA volunteers? 2009-10-16T11:40:06 dbs++ 2009-10-16T11:40:08 * berick read that as whippersnappers 2009-10-16T11:40:08 sure. i'm willing to get things started 2009-10-16T11:40:19 sboyette++ 2009-10-16T11:40:22 I guess my point is, I want sboyette to beat me about the head and neck if I'm an SME on a bug/patch he's wrangling publicly and I'm not getting anything done on it (and could be) 2009-10-16T11:40:31 right ... whipcrackers 2009-10-16T11:40:41 berick: I did too ;) 2009-10-16T11:40:51 SME: small to medium enterprise? 2009-10-16T11:40:55 *** HitScan has left #Evergreen 2009-10-16T11:40:59 subject matter expert 2009-10-16T11:41:10 bug/patches being different than feature requests 2009-10-16T11:42:05 sure. i read "patch advocates" initially as "people who were advocating that a certain (possibly controversial) feature be accepted as a patch"... and upon clarification, that's not exactly what miker meant. :) 2009-10-16T11:42:09 phasefx_: well... different priorities 2009-10-16T11:42:13 phasefx_: though I would combine both in the same system 2009-10-16T11:42:18 right, feature requests with no supporting code are a different matter - still important, but a feature with an attached patch (at least to me) should carry more weight and have more attention paid in the short term 2009-10-16T11:42:36 what natschil and miker_ said :) 2009-10-16T11:42:48 and bugfix patches will sometimes need some advocating/whip-cracking lest they be overlooked/forgotten/etc 2009-10-16T11:42:54 dbs: does launchpad have a feature request system? 2009-10-16T11:42:58 jeff: right 2009-10-16T11:42:59 natschil: of course! 2009-10-16T11:43:14 natschil and a kitchen sink too! : ) 2009-10-16T11:43:31 natschil: it's the "blueprints" section 2009-10-16T11:43:34 it's built on top of emacs? 2009-10-16T11:43:45 do features with attached patches have more, or less precedence than features with attached bounties? :) 2009-10-16T11:44:05 Stev3: less :) 2009-10-16T11:44:22 btw, https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/85776 (transfer of the inactive launchpad.net/evergreen is in progress) 2009-10-16T11:44:32 dbs++ 2009-10-16T11:44:36 djfiander++ 2009-10-16T11:44:36 so is evergreen going to stick with launchpad now? 2009-10-16T11:44:38 Stev3: depends on the feature in question 2009-10-16T11:44:56 * moodaepo agrees with miker_ 2009-10-16T11:44:58 miker_: Stev3: and the bounty ;) 2009-10-16T11:45:06 heh 2009-10-16T11:45:11 Anyways so launchpad++ ? 2009-10-16T11:45:34 natschil: good question. Shall we put that to a vote, at least as something to try for the next three months or something? 2009-10-16T11:45:57 dbs: how about sending it out on the mailing list? 2009-10-16T11:47:11 natschil: the risk is getting into "but why not use {my favorite tool} instead" arguments ... though the risk is probably much lower than the bug-db one ;) 2009-10-16T11:47:43 natschil: well - we don't really have a formalized decision making process, and we have had some discussion already on the list 2009-10-16T11:47:52 the launchpad question, use launchpad for everything it offers or some things? 2009-10-16T11:48:04 phasefx_: I would keep trac as well. 2009-10-16T11:48:05 would launchpad replace the present TRAC and mailman etc? 2009-10-16T11:48:16 Stev3: no no 2009-10-16T11:48:20 asked and answered. 2009-10-16T11:48:32 If I understand, the proposals on the table are: 2009-10-16T11:48:51 Yea we've talked on the list on #evergreen...I say no more votes just try out launchpad (say 3 months as dbs suggests) 2009-10-16T11:48:59 btw, back to the issue of community contributions, feature requests and http://open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=sofware_bounties should maybe be moved to launchpad as well. 2009-10-16T11:49:00 1. Keep Trac as the "close-to-the-code" bug tracking system 2009-10-16T11:49:29 dbs: Why not move all bugs to launchpad? 2009-10-16T11:49:45 natschil++ # if we do decide on Launchpad...I think dbs is making a list of proposals 2009-10-16T11:50:12 2. Open a writable-by-anyone bug tracking system that integrates with the Trac instance 2009-10-16T11:50:14 oh heh, I misunderstood there. 2009-10-16T11:50:16 moodaepo: exactly 2009-10-16T11:51:15 3. Put out a call for a QA team that will, as one of their powers/responsibilities, have the ability to move bugs from the writable-by-anyone bug tracking system to the Trac instance 2009-10-16T11:52:33 4. For a trial period of three months, try out launchpad as the writable-by-anyone bug system / translations system / feature request / code review / FAQ-development thingy 2009-10-16T11:53:13 djfiander's suggestion to grant an account to directly open bugs after reporting a legitimate one on the mailing list might not apply given (2) 2009-10-16T11:53:21 i'm down 2009-10-16T11:53:22 Is that a reasonably accurate summary? 2009-10-16T11:53:23 So are we putting these on the list or not...as I said I am all for #4. Hopefully they transfer launchpad/evergreen over to us. 2009-10-16T11:53:27 dbs++ 2009-10-16T11:53:50 4++ # or should that be spelt 3++ :) 2009-10-16T11:53:56 moodaepo: heh, yes, they've granted a number of similar requests in the past, and if we agree and I point them at these logs, I don't think that will be a problem :) 2009-10-16T11:54:06 we could create an "un-verified" ticket status in trac, make it the default. less copying stuff around that way. 2009-10-16T11:54:13 i think long-term, nobody wants to support 2 bugs systems 2009-10-16T11:54:21 dbs: moodaepo: otherwise it's back to openils/openils-evergreen 2009-10-16T11:54:24 :) 2009-10-16T11:54:42 https://launchpad.net/trac-launchpad 2009-10-16T11:54:47 heh, berick and atz, are you calling miker_ crazy? :) 2009-10-16T11:54:50 but if it takes a 2nd system to get it opened up right now, that's worth it 2009-10-16T11:55:09 jamesrf++ # dbs mentioned that earlier 2009-10-16T11:55:16 will all bugs exist in launchpad and "promoted/accepted" bugs end up in trac also? or will some tickets be directly created by devs in trac and never make it to launchpad? will users need to search both systems to find a bug? 2009-10-16T11:55:36 atz: I think you're wrong abou tnot wanting 2 bug systems ... I want 2. but my mind may be changed by launchpad 2009-10-16T11:55:49 jeff: our history suggests that devs don't open bugs 2009-10-16T11:56:05 jeff: I'm not saying that's a good thing, though :) 2009-10-16T11:56:31 whether the 2-tier pilot is awesome or horrible, we learn something and get shunted toward the solution that works 2009-10-16T11:56:33 i would like to see whatever artifacts exist from the "failed" open bug system... i understand there's some history there but i don't really get what happened 2009-10-16T11:56:41 dbs: and to be frank, it suggests that "open to all" doesn't work for the opposite reason ;) 2009-10-16T11:57:11 * phasefx_ can try reviving bugzilla for atz 2009-10-16T11:57:23 dbs: recent history contradicts that 2009-10-16T11:57:24 We're almost at two hours, folks 2009-10-16T11:57:25 atz: get ready to install evergreen 1.0 alpha ;) 2009-10-16T11:57:28 (w/ me anyway) 2009-10-16T11:57:36 even if dev's don't historically document bugs, it is a good idea to have a central point to create a bug ticket... if we doing launchpad w/ trac-launchpad the proc probably should be LP -> T for all. imho 2009-10-16T11:57:37 atz: true! atz++ 2009-10-16T11:57:48 miker_ That's why I still like djfiander's suggestion...noise control 2009-10-16T11:58:31 * berick will be mentally disconnecting from the channel shortly 2009-10-16T11:58:48 moodaepo: yep, me too. if it works, and lauchpad is good as a developer tool in addition to a user tool, my mind will change, I bet 2009-10-16T11:58:54 moodaepo: but with a QA team to help filter the noise, I think that a little noise may be a reasonable price to pay for increased participation 2009-10-16T11:59:25 dbs: I agree with that too, fwiw 2009-10-16T11:59:30 Will do. Then are we deciding on proposal 4? 2009-10-16T11:59:38 i think the two-tier system has potential, even if it results in {abandoning trac in favor of just-launchpad|running screaming from the two-tier experiment back to trac/something}. i think the details/specifics of the two-tier experiment should be hashed out by sboyette and some others outside the context of this meeting, some discussion on the list, and when the evergreen project is re-assigned on launchpad, the experiment can begin. 2009-10-16T11:59:44 I'm not against noise, as long as there's some signal in there too :) 2009-10-16T11:59:44 (I need to be off now -- I'll check the logs later...) 2009-10-16T11:59:50 *** wlayton has quit IRC 2009-10-16T11:59:53 i find the default resolution statuses INVALID and WONTFIX are so caustic that it doesn't take many of those before spurious filers are shut down... (and legitimate filers too if applied incorrectly) 2009-10-16T12:00:03 i think it's important that the expectations / process be laid out for the experiment (or whatever we wish to call it) begins. 2009-10-16T12:00:17 atz: we need to add a BOGUS resolution, just like PHP, to really offend people. 2009-10-16T12:00:27 jeff++ 2009-10-16T12:00:30 or GETBENTNOOB 2009-10-16T12:00:31 yeah, BOGUS is even worse than INVALID! 2009-10-16T12:00:47 I think I saw this on c4l the other day...dja vu man deja vu. 2009-10-16T12:00:47 and fwiw, agreed that some increased noise is a small price to pay for increased participation. 2009-10-16T12:00:47 a less toxic way to do that would be to turn such things into documentation bugs. 2009-10-16T12:00:55 djfiander++ 2009-10-16T12:00:59 djfiander: you read my mind 2009-10-16T12:01:08 because that's what they are, eh. 2009-10-16T12:01:09 launchpad lets you turn a bug report into an FAQ 2009-10-16T12:01:10 djfiander++ 2009-10-16T12:01:15 WONTFIX shouldn't imply negative emotion. it means that the "bug" is actually a position contrary to a design decision, or that the reported issue cannot be handled due to technical reasons 2009-10-16T12:01:19 djfiander++ 2009-10-16T12:01:47 ok just like to shout out in the interest of keeping on topic and keeping things moving along 2009-10-16T12:01:49 and/or it could be assigned to the DIG team, assuming that they'll play a part 2009-10-16T12:02:00 sboyette: that doesn't sound that way to a librarian who "really needs this fixed" (how many times do we hear that?) 2009-10-16T12:02:37 then an explanation should be sent along with the bug closure instead of summary execution :) 2009-10-16T12:02:37 so, immediate outcome of this agenda item is: sboyette will put out a call for a QA team to help refine the details 2009-10-16T12:02:38 atz: we could change it to "the "bug" is actually a position contrary to a design decision, or that the reported issue cannot be handled due to technical reasons", but the dropdown would be awefully wide 2009-10-16T12:03:15 can we leave it at that and move on to.... release process? 2009-10-16T12:03:15 i believe that brings us to "Release process" 2009-10-16T12:03:21 jeff++ 2009-10-16T12:03:28 I move that we return to CVS. 2009-10-16T12:03:33 RCS 2009-10-16T12:03:39 SCCS 2009-10-16T12:03:46 file locking is for pansies 2009-10-16T12:03:55 a rock and a chisel? 2009-10-16T12:03:58 SourceSafe 2009-10-16T12:04:00 ln -sf Ingest.pm.really_fixed_this_time.pm Ingest.pm 2009-10-16T12:04:19 sboyette: you get the joys of thinking you have file locking without actually having file locking 2009-10-16T12:04:38 CMVC (shoutout to djfiander and any other ex-big bluers) 2009-10-16T12:04:52 lol 2009-10-16T12:04:59 I built some really great systems on top of SCCS 2009-10-16T12:05:09 ok, seriously, release stuff: i'm working on a buildbot which is nearing completion of its first phase of development. it's gonna get its own box to live on, and it will be public (both output and source) 2009-10-16T12:05:24 dbs, I never coded when I worked there. 2009-10-16T12:05:37 sboyette++ # hooray! 2009-10-16T12:05:41 by the time it goes public -- at the end of the month -- the goal is to have it not just acting as a continuous integration server 2009-10-16T12:05:44 sboyette: holy crap! awesome 2009-10-16T12:05:47 sboyette: both opensrf and eg at this point? 2009-10-16T12:05:50 but to have it building nightly tarballs 2009-10-16T12:06:07 wheeeeeee! 2009-10-16T12:06:09 miker_: it doesn't care. it knows nothing of their internals. 2009-10-16T12:06:13 my dream has come true 2009-10-16T12:06:22 sboyette++ 2009-10-16T12:06:23 you could use it to build anything that uses a GNU toolchain 2009-10-16T12:06:34 kbeswick++ 2009-10-16T12:06:38 indeed!~ 2009-10-16T12:06:46 the eg-specific parts exist sort of on the side -- like the tarball building part 2009-10-16T12:06:52 kbeswick: and you thought that was all busy work! ;) 2009-10-16T12:06:54 equinox++ (for paying kbeswick to build the GNU toolchain) 2009-10-16T12:06:57 (j/k) 2009-10-16T12:07:11 sboyette: rad 2009-10-16T12:07:13 that'll be using the buildbot's libraries to intropect the bot's db. separate from the bot scripts proper, etc. ,etc. 2009-10-16T12:07:26 so that's what i'm doing for release management. you can all talk now. 2009-10-16T12:08:04 (it'll have plenty of docs) 2009-10-16T12:08:08 sboyette: i think you just euchered everyone. 2009-10-16T12:08:13 sboyette: so - any things that are not currently part of the GNU toolchain will need to either be added to it, or made available in some form of pre-built output? 2009-10-16T12:08:23 (euchred, even) 2009-10-16T12:08:37 * dbs calls no ace, no face, no trump 2009-10-16T12:08:52 * moodaepo looking up euchred 2009-10-16T12:08:56 dbs, we didn't talk about that house rule before the game started. 2009-10-16T12:08:59 things like the openils_dojo layer, translations... not much more I can think of off the top of my head 2009-10-16T12:09:15 dbs: the design separates build slaves from a long-running process which handles all db access and system state and such 2009-10-16T12:09:20 openils_dojo++ 2009-10-16T12:09:22 dbs: i think it's pretty open and extensible 2009-10-16T12:09:26 dbs: but i have to start somewhere 2009-10-16T12:09:42 sboyette: yes, that's cool. awesome, I say. 2009-10-16T12:09:58 i tend to have problems with infinite design syndrome as it is, so i've tried to stick to the main point for starters 2009-10-16T12:10:27 (and yes, the buildbot has its own test suite) 2009-10-16T12:10:31 Okay, so that pretty much takes care of the automated build section (although again, I imagine sboyette could always use more eyes once it's ready and rolling) 2009-10-16T12:10:39 but can the buildbot build itself? 2009-10-16T12:10:54 can it build skynet? 2009-10-16T12:11:01 and does it have the 3 laws? 2009-10-16T12:11:19 sboyette: do we need a branch in the core repo for this thingy, once it's public-able? 2009-10-16T12:11:39 would ILS-Contrib work? 2009-10-16T12:11:48 it hasn't been decided where it should live. we (the esi dev team) have talked about it, but not decided anything 2009-10-16T12:12:14 the current candidates are ils-contrib and "a git repository, somewhere" 2009-10-16T12:12:23 I vote for the latter. 2009-10-16T12:12:27 hah :) 2009-10-16T12:12:46 at the moment it lives in a git repo on my workstation 2009-10-16T12:13:09 sboyette: would you like a branch on http://github.com/senator/OpenILS-Evergreen ? 2009-10-16T12:13:52 atz: if we're gonna start sing github, i think it should be in a "evergreen" or "esi" account or some such 2009-10-16T12:13:57 instead of someone's personal account 2009-10-16T12:13:58 on that note - shall we set up quasi-official mirrors for git & bzr (& hg or whatever if somebody else comes along)? 2009-10-16T12:14:07 agreed with sboyette 2009-10-16T12:14:07 Launch it on Launchpad! 2009-10-16T12:14:09 s/sing/using/ 2009-10-16T12:14:14 sboyette: sure, but i don't control teh money$$ 2009-10-16T12:14:20 github don't cost nothin' 2009-10-16T12:14:44 certain features (private repos) do 2009-10-16T12:14:51 anyway. i'm not advocating for anything in particular. i can work with whatever. 2009-10-16T12:14:57 *** natschil has quit IRC 2009-10-16T12:15:10 read: i'll still be using my git repo 2009-10-16T12:15:33 *** chris_sharp has quit IRC 2009-10-16T12:17:18 * phasefx_ is for mirrors (official or otherwise) of the various distributed repos that are springing up 2009-10-16T12:17:23 dbs: if there's interest/resources, whatever works 2009-10-16T12:17:44 for backup if nothing else 2009-10-16T12:17:50 i think it's a different form of "lowering barriers to participation" 2009-10-16T12:18:05 * atz checks if anybody has registered "bzrhub.com" 2009-10-16T12:18:06 and good/healthy. 2009-10-16T12:18:12 When exactly will this superbot start work? 2009-10-16T12:18:36 it has to win a round against mothra first 2009-10-16T12:18:37 or is it called the sboybot? : ) 2009-10-16T12:18:40 moodaepo: ``at the end of the month'' 2009-10-16T12:18:44 jeff: good point; on launchpad and github, it should be easy for anyone to maintain their own branches with their own customizations 2009-10-16T12:18:54 it's actually a pretty simplebot. but the target is end of the month. 2009-10-16T12:19:14 rather than the patchwork of variant files that conifer currently has in ILS-Contrib, for example 2009-10-16T12:19:17 the next 2 weeks will be internal testing and adding the tarball building stuff 2009-10-16T12:19:23 jeff sboyette right..I saw that. 2009-10-16T12:19:44 Anything else on the subject of release process? 2009-10-16T12:19:57 *** lettie has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T12:20:11 moodaepo: given that we're at two hours +, we should probably move the discussion back to the mailing list and revisit at next meeting 2009-10-16T12:20:25 moodaepo: thanks for keeping us on track :) 2009-10-16T12:20:47 we've got acquisitions (already sort-of talked about, so maybe we can skip it) 2009-10-16T12:21:23 oils_i18n_gettext, which we can defer to the lists for more head-scratching? 2009-10-16T12:21:27 dbs real quick what did we talk about acq? 2009-10-16T12:21:56 one liner will do 2009-10-16T12:22:15 moodaepo: that 1.6.0.0 is a preview release, so no bugs in acq in 1.6.0.0 are considered showstoppers, bug fixes get added to rel_1_6_0, and new features are in rel_1_6 and above 2009-10-16T12:22:17 i think the release notes sum it up: 2009-10-16T12:22:19 ``Acquisitions Preview includes a sneak peek at the preliminary work for manual funding management, PO creation, cataloging and receiving processes. These are functional but are not intended for insertion into current workflows. This feature was specifically included to solicit feedback from the community on this important feature.'' 2009-10-16T12:22:22 ah right 2009-10-16T12:22:40 and "acq bugs are not 1.6.0.0 showstoppers" 2009-10-16T12:22:53 as in, they are expected 2009-10-16T12:23:12 I have that under my 1.6 notes ok...which was a long time ago : ) 2009-10-16T12:23:22 * phasefx_ is okay with punting oils_i18n_gettext to list; "It came up because I was adding something and wanted to do it 'correctly', and found that I couldn't" 2009-10-16T12:23:29 * dbs taps his mike: is this thing on? :) 2009-10-16T12:24:01 future development - on craftsman specifically, kgs had sent me a document a while ago with a long list of bugs in craftsman that made my head swim, but we should convert those into actual bugs 2009-10-16T12:24:27 yeah, she kept saying she already knew about a lot of the stuff i was filing 2009-10-16T12:25:24 dbs anyone in particular to enter those as bugs/check which ones atz has entered already? 2009-10-16T12:25:45 craftsman seems to have an interesting history, but one question i have is... are some of the "source" materials behind the design (logos without gradient/transparency/etc) available? was the design an entirely outsourced process and those were not "deliverables"? 2009-10-16T12:25:51 I'm not sure if it was supposed to be released to the wild, but I can dig it out of my inbox if equinox is okay with it 2009-10-16T12:25:51 or can we pass it on to atz : ) 2009-10-16T12:25:55 * atz hasn't seen her doc though 2009-10-16T12:26:12 (the only reason that I'm not sure if it was supposed to be released to the wild is because kgs didn't post it anywhere public) 2009-10-16T12:26:43 * moodaepo nominates dbs and atz look over the kgs file 2009-10-16T12:26:54 jeff: good question... i filed against the small logo, for example, because it is "crusty" 2009-10-16T12:27:03 dbs: I don't see any problem with getting the list of problems out there if you just want to yank that out of kgs' doc 2009-10-16T12:27:05 If you need any help I volunteer 2009-10-16T12:27:20 * dbs needs to go celebrate support staff day 2009-10-16T12:27:41 how unfortunate 2009-10-16T12:27:44 jeff: it's a long story. several, actually. too long for right now (for me, anyway) 2009-10-16T12:27:58 miker_: noted. thanks. 2009-10-16T12:28:42 at 2.5h, and doing 5 other things, I'm, as they say 'round here, plumb wore out 2009-10-16T12:28:50 if anything begins behind the scenes that would make development / enhancement against craftsman "wasted work", a heads up as quickly as possible would be appreciated by everyone. :) 2009-10-16T12:28:55 they don't actually say that around here ... thankfully 2009-10-16T12:29:11 i'm going to lurk but need to step out in RL. thanks y'all for this EG distraction...i mean... project. very cool. 2009-10-16T12:29:27 I'm making a note that dbs and atz will work this craftsman thing out and I volunteered if they need any help/grunt work 2009-10-16T12:29:56 so - another meeting in a month? or sooner? is my only question - which can go to the lists, as I really really have to go. thanks a ton to everyone! this has been awesome 2009-10-16T12:29:58 I say we move any future development discussion to the mailing list or the next meeting 2009-10-16T12:30:02 jeff: well, I've expressed my displeasure with craftsman before, and I won't rehash that here, but suffice it to say that it's not what it could be internally :( 2009-10-16T12:30:06 dbs++ 2009-10-16T12:30:14 dbs++ 2009-10-16T12:30:24 dbs++ # indeed 2009-10-16T12:30:25 if there were master PSD or TIFFs or whatever.... those should go in the repo, imho 2009-10-16T12:31:07 i propose that we adjourn, with an encouragement to post any ``What's shaking in the near future? / Any long term projects that we need to start laying the groundwork for now?" items to open-ils-dev, and that someone (dbs?) start a "when's our next meeting?" thread soon. 2009-10-16T12:31:11 dbs=dbs<<8; 2009-10-16T12:31:53 jeff++ Shall we call meeting adjourned then? 2009-10-16T12:31:55 dbs: want to sync up with grace on the meeting stuffs in general? 2009-10-16T12:31:57 (not that conversation can't continue here also) 2009-10-16T12:31:57 i think that means we're done 2009-10-16T12:32:08 moodaepo: seconded 2009-10-16T12:32:10 by general consent 2009-10-16T12:32:34 thanks all I'm going to go finish typing up the notes 2009-10-16T12:32:40 moodaepo++ 2009-10-16T12:32:45 you can't see me. I'm no longer here. 2009-10-16T12:32:56 thx, moodaepo++ 2009-10-16T12:36:06 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T12:36:25 i'm gonna get on the "what's up with testing" mail. i'll do the testers call one separately, after conferring with dbs about what he's been thinking. 2009-10-16T12:36:42 * natschil is back after a power cut.... what was decided on the issue of launchpad? 2009-10-16T12:37:00 sboyette++ 2009-10-16T12:37:11 *** branflakes_bc has quit IRC 2009-10-16T12:38:30 natschil: basically, "let's try it" 2009-10-16T12:38:37 natschil I think we are going with it, details to be refined by the QA team which sboyette is assembling. 2009-10-16T12:38:39 ok cool. 2009-10-16T12:38:54 what's the current discussion topic? (or has the meeting finished?) 2009-10-16T12:39:05 Just finished a few minutes ago 2009-10-16T12:39:07 *** HitScan has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T12:39:31 wrapped up about 3 minutes before you rejoined. moodaepo is working on the summary 2009-10-16T12:42:14 natschil: also, regarding C headers and documentation, that task is handled in perl through narrative documentation in pod format, which is read using 'perldoc', which is a tool that works like 'man' (sorry if i'm oversimplifying things; i don't know your level of experience) 2009-10-16T12:42:46 however, the pod in osrf/eg is frequently scant or bitrotted. i was working on that in lockstep with the test suite development 2009-10-16T12:43:15 sboyette: no problem, better to oversimplficy than to overcomplicate :) I've heard of the concept before, but I didn't know about perldoc. 2009-10-16T12:43:32 you just do 'perldoc Module::Name' 2009-10-16T12:43:57 or 'perldoc -f perlfuctionname' for the perl builtins 2009-10-16T12:44:26 if you're on debian you'll likely see a message that you don't have the 'perl-doc' package installed 2009-10-16T12:44:47 because you don't, for some bizarre reason 2009-10-16T12:44:57 it is one of the mysteries of debian 2009-10-16T12:45:07 don't by default, i mean 2009-10-16T12:48:06 *** ColinC has left #evergreen 2009-10-16T12:50:17 oh, and for those still paying attention... if you haven't added/updated your info at http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=community:irc_channel and need a wiki account to do so, msg me with your desired username, realname, and email address -- i'll create a wiki account for you. 2009-10-16T13:03:05 *** BAr_ has quit IRC 2009-10-16T13:08:28 *** grahamf has quit IRC 2009-10-16T13:15:14 *** ianB_ has quit IRC 2009-10-16T13:23:23 *** rschiffman has quit IRC 2009-10-16T13:23:23 heading out for the afternoon. tty Monday 2009-10-16T13:34:25 *** dbwells has left #Evergreen 2009-10-16T13:35:29 *** jamesrf_ has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T13:39:30 *** djfiander has left #Evergreen 2009-10-16T13:42:17 *** HitScan has quit IRC 2009-10-16T13:51:37 *** natschil has quit IRC 2009-10-16T13:51:48 *** jamesrf has quit IRC 2009-10-16T13:52:48 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T13:57:48 *** natschil has quit IRC 2009-10-16T13:58:56 *** jamesrf_ is now known as jamesrf 2009-10-16T14:00:26 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T14:04:31 *** natschil has quit IRC 2009-10-16T14:04:53 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T14:08:52 *** natschil has quit IRC 2009-10-16T14:09:51 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T14:13:53 *** natschil has quit IRC 2009-10-16T14:15:20 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T14:20:51 *** natschil has quit IRC 2009-10-16T14:21:49 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T14:25:48 *** natschil has quit IRC 2009-10-16T14:53:00 *** meliss has quit IRC 2009-10-16T15:03:29 still feeling the glow: http://evergreen-ils.org/blog/?p=276 2009-10-16T15:03:34 @list 2009-10-16T15:03:34 dbs: Admin, Channel, ChannelLogger, Config, Games, Herald, Karma, Later, Math, Misc, Note, Owner, Praise, Quote, Reply, Seen, Todo, and User 2009-10-16T15:04:18 phasefx: how do we get pinesol` to announce RSS feeds again? I miss that 2009-10-16T15:04:57 hrmm 2009-10-16T15:05:18 we may have lost a plugin during that big upgrade 2009-10-16T15:06:03 wonder if we could snag the configs and plugins for the #code4lib bot 2009-10-16T15:06:31 ah, if I recall correctly the RSS plugin was memory-leaky over time; that's why it was pulled from zoia 2009-10-16T15:10:44 heh.. "targeted at someone other than the one doing the decrementing" 2009-10-16T15:11:35 I was feeling quite challenged in working out a cleaner way of saying that. Brain is fried. 2009-10-16T15:14:30 no, it made sense, it made me laugh though that you thought to add that, especially since I was one of the self-decrementers 2009-10-16T15:23:01 Gotta have a zero on every list of numbers! 2009-10-16T15:23:18 *** lettie has quit IRC 2009-10-16T15:27:27 *** kbeswick has quit IRC 2009-10-16T15:27:46 *** gdunbar has quit IRC 2009-10-16T15:30:13 now go away or i shall decrement you a second time-ah 2009-10-16T15:30:52 * berick dodges vaches 2009-10-16T15:41:07 *** Stuart_ has quit IRC 2009-10-16T15:51:14 dbs: 6 (number of new evergreen wiki accounts created following the meeting) 2009-10-16T15:51:57 jeff++ 2009-10-16T15:51:58 (possibly higher if others created accounts for people) 2009-10-16T15:52:34 3: number of times I managed to screw up meeting time zones or dates in various emails / blog posts 2009-10-16T15:53:52 *** lettie has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T15:56:52 *** bshum has quit IRC 2009-10-16T15:59:12 *** lettie has quit IRC 2009-10-16T16:01:08 *** rmatott has quit IRC 2009-10-16T16:04:33 *** lettie has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T16:05:26 Is it just me or do the breadcrumbs/trace look wrong? > http://open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php 2009-10-16T16:06:14 moodaepo: depends on what you're seeing, it looks okay to me 2009-10-16T16:07:08 hmm doesn't start with dig_meetings for you? 2009-10-16T16:07:22 I assume that the request "Block online renewals once a person has any fines, but allow in-person borrowing up to $10" is sufficiently difficult to implement in script-based circ rules as to say "No" 2009-10-16T16:08:33 I have "Trace: » dig_meetings » dig_meeting_20090702-meeting_notes » dig_meeting_20090909-notes » 2009-10 » start" maybe because I got the wiki login as a DIG volunteer to start with? 2009-10-16T16:08:57 dbs: not difficult if you make staff use overrides (just annoying) 2009-10-16T16:10:16 moodaepo: that seems likely; if your first link into the wiki was to the "dig_meetings" page, then the cookies show you which pages you visited to get to "start" 2009-10-16T16:10:44 breadcrumbs are specific to your user/session, not the page you are on. 2009-10-16T16:10:45 It's a true breadcrumb, not a "this is where you are in the hierarchy" indicator 2009-10-16T16:10:53 what dbs said. 2009-10-16T16:10:59 what jeff said 2009-10-16T16:11:02 dbs jeff gotcha 2009-10-16T16:11:34 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T16:11:45 I presume then I can post the notes here and other note takers can add/clean it from there? >http://open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:meetings:2009-10:notes 2009-10-16T16:12:28 /msg jeff 2009-10-16T16:12:36 moodaepo: sounds great! 2009-10-16T16:12:57 phasefx: true, true 2009-10-16T16:13:46 but wait - are you saying that the overrides would start at $0.01? 2009-10-16T16:14:52 and thus be very annoying 2009-10-16T16:15:25 I don't think fines information is available to the renew permit, alas 2009-10-16T16:15:36 renew permit script 2009-10-16T16:15:37 well, that's what we have now - they wanted to lift the overrides for anything under $10 2009-10-16T16:16:12 *** jamesrf has quit IRC 2009-10-16T16:16:29 would be relatively easy to add an Override checkbox, such that all checkouts get .override 2009-10-16T16:17:12 probably not the best way to tackle the whole thing (which would be to shove billing summary data into the script environment) 2009-10-16T16:17:21 it would be nice if those overrides could differentiate between "this is a patron exception" (max fines, max out, etc) and "this is a copy exception" (bad copy status) 2009-10-16T16:17:52 yeah, that's the danger of a checkbox 2009-10-16T16:17:55 jeff: agreed 2009-10-16T16:18:35 though I suppose you could play with permissions there.. have the copy exceptions require an escalation of privileges, even if temporarily 2009-10-16T16:21:56 somewhat eww. :P 2009-10-16T16:22:15 * phasefx_ knows how to do quick & dirty :) 2009-10-16T16:22:25 i'm thinking something like a checkbox on the override dialog for "override all copy-based exceptions for this checkout session") 2009-10-16T16:22:46 but the client doesn't currently have anything to know patron-based vs copy-based 2009-10-16T16:22:57 so, there's a bit of foundation work needed there. :) 2009-10-16T16:23:38 there was one checkbox I wanted to permission failure dialog, and that's Operator Change. Meaning, the credentials stick as if you had did Admin -> Operator Change 2009-10-16T16:23:54 wanted to add, even 2009-10-16T16:24:19 but yeah, no selective overriding 2009-10-16T16:24:43 well 2009-10-16T16:26:00 right now when the client sends off a request, as part of the request you define which events are overridable.. if all of the events that come back are in that list, you get the override prompt, which resends the message with .override. We could tweak how that event list works, and have it do automatic override events for certain events, and prompt for others 2009-10-16T16:26:34 so auto-override given a toggle somewhere 2009-10-16T16:29:19 ah, neat. i remember seeing that. 2009-10-16T16:29:25 (now) 2009-10-16T16:29:43 *** lettie has quit IRC 2009-10-16T16:30:04 so maybe 'overridable_events' and 'auto_overridable_events' 2009-10-16T16:33:51 *** arnt has left #Evergreen 2009-10-16T16:47:45 *** natschil has quit IRC 2009-10-16T16:47:47 *** jamesrf has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T16:48:24 it looks like our circ desk was rarely changing patron expiry dates, and a large bunch of them expired yesterday, does the fine generator key in on this scenario? 2009-10-16T16:51:31 *** Stev3 has left #Evergreen 2009-10-16T16:52:02 *** dbs has quit IRC 2009-10-16T16:53:13 i think dbs answered this question in one of his final acts before disconnecting, ignore me :-) 2009-10-16T16:58:13 artunit: not, the fine generator doesn't care about the details of the patron, jfyi 2009-10-16T16:58:20 s/not/no/ 2009-10-16T16:59:13 miker_: that's good news, i don't know why our circ desk was ignoring expiry dates 2009-10-16T17:04:27 *** lettie has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T17:15:04 *** lettie has quit IRC 2009-10-16T17:28:45 * moodaepo wants to change where he put the notes on the wiki! 2009-10-16T17:29:00 right now it's at > http://open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:meetings:2009-10:notes 2009-10-16T17:29:12 *** Dyrcona has quit IRC 2009-10-16T17:29:48 *** Dyrcona has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T17:30:20 hmm well maybe it wasn't my fault but I think it should've been here > http://open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:meetings:2009-16:notes (2009-16 not 2009-10) 2009-10-16T17:30:57 moodaepo: i think 2009-10 is correct, signifying the October 2009 meeting. 2009-10-16T17:31:20 jeff oh right I was not thinking. again. 2009-10-16T17:31:36 notes look nice! thank you! 2009-10-16T17:36:27 and we also have this > http://open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:meetings 2009-10-16T17:36:41 *** senator has quit IRC 2009-10-16T17:40:14 wlayton put his up here > http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:meetings:2009-10:minutes 2009-10-16T17:40:14 : ) 2009-10-16T17:43:10 *** wlayton has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T17:44:39 moodaepo: Sorry about that! I think you've done more than me so far, though, so we can keep yours. 2009-10-16T17:45:16 However, I want to say that I like having bold ACTION items -- it reminds people what they're supposed to do after the meeting is over 2009-10-16T17:46:47 *** wlayton has quit IRC 2009-10-16T17:49:29 wlayton++ # yea I like the ACTION items too 2009-10-16T17:49:42 this is what I did a few minutes ago > http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:meetings 2009-10-16T17:50:14 named users minutes and mine notes...was there anyone else who was going to put one together? 2009-10-16T17:51:30 s/named users/named yours/ 2009-10-16T17:53:16 *** eby_ has quit IRC 2009-10-16T18:22:50 *** jamesrf has quit IRC 2009-10-16T19:47:42 *** phase_bb has quit IRC 2009-10-16T20:15:19 *** dbs has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T20:16:10 @later tell berick the auth records are in trunk; lemme know if you want them in other branches; also note that they are missing a 0 in leader position 22 (hrm...) 2009-10-16T20:16:10 dbs: The operation succeeded. 2009-10-16T20:18:54 *** wlayton has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T20:20:03 dbs: thanks! trunk'll do nicely 2009-10-16T20:25:41 my pleasure, sir 2009-10-16T20:28:06 bah, need to set the mime-type, one sec 2009-10-16T20:28:48 okay. 2009-10-16T20:49:34 *** bott_otr has quit IRC 2009-10-16T20:59:43 *** bott_otr has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T21:04:02 *** wlayton has quit IRC 2009-10-16T21:07:12 *** wlayton has joined #evergreen 2009-10-16T21:14:02 i'm chuckling at the following: 2009-10-16T21:14:03 # 2009-10-16T21:14:03 Jeff Godin (jeff) asked what “Formal support for IE8” meant in the 1.6.0.0 release notes 2009-10-16T21:14:07 * 2009-10-16T21:14:09 Mike Rylander (miker_) responded that it referred to http/https cleanups for the My Account page in the OPAC 2009-10-16T21:27:53 jeff: not sure what you're chuckling about (other than you being the contributor of those cleanups?) 2009-10-16T21:28:34 yes. i am easily amused tonight. 2009-10-16T21:28:43 s/ tonight// #perhaps 2009-10-16T21:28:52 that's a good thing 2009-10-16T21:37:12 weird: "git clone foo" results in "The program 'git' is not currently installed"; "sudo aptitude git" installs git and gnuit, and then "git clone foo" results in "The program 'git' is not currently installed" 2009-10-16T21:37:15 huh? 2009-10-16T21:38:15 ah... need git-core. long-standing ubuntu weirdness 2009-10-16T21:39:56 anyone here have filesystem access to libmail.georgialibraries.org? 2009-10-16T21:39:57 oh. 2009-10-16T21:40:01 nevermind. 2009-10-16T21:40:10 my mailman-fu was rusty. 2009-10-16T21:40:14 but no more! 2009-10-16T21:42:06 do mailing list archives exist before March 16 2006? http://libmail.georgialibraries.org/pipermail/open-ils-dev/2006-March/000000.html 2009-10-16T21:45:53 *** bott_otr has left #evergreen 2009-10-16T22:02:11 dbs: nice blog post, btw. 2009-10-16T22:12:36 *** mck9 has left #evergreen 2009-10-16T22:13:28 jeff: thanks - it was fun to write :) 2009-10-16T22:22:18 how was support staff day? 2009-10-16T22:24:33 only a few showed up at the appointed time - heh 2009-10-16T22:25:00 but kbeswick got to hang out during the eg dev meeting this morning, and we had lunch together... so that was cool 2009-10-16T22:26:51 kbeswick++ # again for the gnu toolchain work 2009-10-16T22:58:21 I guess it would be good to remove the bogus languages from 950.sql 2009-10-16T23:04:06 Subject: SPAM: Re: SPAM: SPAM: Re: SPAM: Re: eggs and SPAM: Re: [OPEN-ILS-DEV] IDL 2009-10-16T23:05:07 (i laughed) i see the "SPAM" subject insertions are nothing new. 2009-10-16T23:08:31 heh, you have to laugh to avoid crying 2009-10-16T23:09:16 hey guys 2009-10-16T23:09:31 howdy 2009-10-16T23:09:37 * phasefx_ is playing Farmville :D 2009-10-16T23:15:03 * jeff is snarfing mbox archives 2009-10-16T23:19:16 firefox is not the ideal tool for this. 2009-10-16T23:19:22 oh well. 2009-10-16T23:21:27 * dbs is trying to get records to ingest in trunk 2009-10-16T23:22:10 * dbs is sure he has the right fm_IDL.xml in place, has run autogen.sh, and is still seeing oils_tsearch2 issues. :( 2009-10-16T23:48:45 *** lettie has joined #Evergreen 2009-10-16T23:59:01 dbs: did you re-run the upgrade script? 2009-10-16T23:59:16 and with that, I'm running off to bed